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ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

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Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#41

Post by constantius »

Leonard_of_Q wrote: post #38
mold_aid wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people in the US definitely have trouble with virtue.

You forgot 'signalling' which is what people in the West - not just the USA - are tired of. I know I am tired of it and I'm neither an American nor in the USA. Stating that a whole country has problems with virtue is rather stigmatising and something you'd complain about if it were about any country in what some have taken to call the "global South".

The sibling comment has more eloquent advice, but I'll add that you're neck deep in an echo chamber if that's how you react. Being vegan, mentioning that a country is difficult to live in as a vegan, in a thread about veganism, is not about signaling. Ask the next vegan who'd been to a Global South country instead of imagining people in your head: if it was a pain, they'll say it was a pain, there is no commentary about virtue in there.

Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#42

Post by constantius »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #3
xvxvx wrote: post #2

I spent 2 weeks in the UK recently and they are light years ahead of the US in terms of veganism and cruelty free products. I was actually quite shocked about how many options the grocery stores had and how almost every restaurant had a vegan option, or even a vegan menu. The trend in the US has been to hide the word ‘vegan’ from consumers and bury it in their website somewhere. Not so in the UK. Brands seem super ha…

I think veganism in America went through a popular phase, then simply faded as a pop concept. Perhaps your experiences in the UK merely reflect that, there, it is just going through a temporary uptick of fad.

I always found it weird when people confidently speak from the wrong end. And the crab mentality of "it's only good there temporarily, then it'll.be the same shit as here" is tiring.

If you had lived in the UK, you'd understand that it's not about temporary vegan menus in restaurants but about the whole country, even in a chain in the middle of nowhere, having vegan alternatives and packaging for years and years.

Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#43

Post by constantius »

zxexz wrote: post #12
orbisvicis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know vegans who consume dairy/eggs once they become responsible for the husbandry of those sources.

I wish this form of Veganism was more well-known. I know a few Vegans who went down a similar path and who were told by a few people they were no longer Vegan. They took the easier path and stopped calling themselves Vegans, which I thought was sad given their objectives when becoming Vegan were clear from the get-go.

How is this veganism? Or a form of it?

It's by definition not vegan to consume animal products. I'm happy that the term is considered so virtuous that people want to self-identify as such (I've even heard meat-eaters say they're vegan "except from time to time"), but I don't think it's intolerant/bigoted to simply look at the definition.

Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#44

Post by thrance »

Gathering6678 wrote: post #28

(1) An inmate is not allowed (essentially, by the society) a specific diet dictated by his/her belief; and, (2) A poor person cannot afford (essentially, because of the society) a nutritious and delicious meal dictated by his/her needs or wants. What are the differences between them? Are there differences at all?

(1) is a negative liberty: freedom from being forced to eat a certain diet. (2) is a positive liberty: actual ability to eat a certain diet. Western society is still mostly blind to the latter type of liberty.

Similarly, everyone is free to own a home, but ensuring everyone has the means to actually do so is just not something politicians will even talk about, and is often labelled as "communist" or some other kind of thought-terminating label. Everyone is free, some people are just freer than others.

Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#46

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

constantius wrote: post #43
zxexz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this form of Veganism was more well-known. I know a few Vegans who went down a similar path and who were told by a few people they were no longer Vegan. They took the easier path and stopped calling themselves Vegans, which I thought was sad given their objectives when becoming Vegan were clear from the get-go.

How is this veganism? Or a form of it? It's by definition not vegan to consume animal products. I'm happy that the term is considered so virtuous that people want to self-identify as such (I've even heard meat-eaters say they're vegan "except from time to time"), but I don't think it's intolerant/bigoted to simply look at the definition.

> It's by definition not vegan to consume animal products

Definitions can change, especially when it comes to personal beliefs of what is right and wrong. Christianity, for example, has split countless versions as people redefine what it means to them. Yet they all still call themselves Christians.

Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#47

Post by bestouff »

PeterHolzwarth wrote: post #14
bestouff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been there for decades.

It's been everywhere for decades - that's not the point. It's fadishness that is what may be going on here: restaurants are the tip of the spear of new trends.

Yeah sure. The world is full of (working) right-wing propaganda. People with "differences" (be it skin color or food taste) won't be catered for. So veganism will probably falter like DEI or other progressive initiatives.

But right now I don't think it's the case yet in the UK.

Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#48

Post by InsideOutSanta »

moi2388 wrote: post #45
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't order a specific meal, they asked for specific items to be excluded from their meals. I'm often cooking for vegans, and it's really not that fricken difficult.

[flagged]

You're proposing that they could have starved?

Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#49

Post by constantius »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #46
constantius wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this veganism? Or a form of it? It's by definition not vegan to consume animal products. I'm happy that the term is considered so virtuous that people want to self-identify as such (I've even heard meat-eaters say they're vegan "except from time to time"), but I don't think it's intolerant/bigoted to simply look at the definition.

> It's by definition not vegan to consume animal products Definitions can change, especially when it comes to personal beliefs of what is right and wrong. Christianity, for example, has split countless versions as people redefine what it means to them. Yet they all still call themselves Christians.

I seriously feel like I'm being DDoS'd, because this position is so absurd and has so many counters to it (can you really not realise this?) that I don't know where to start.

The definition of veganism includes more than just not eating animal products, but that aspect of it leaves no place to ambiguity.

What's the appeal of including vegetarians and carnists into veganism? It's not like vegans wield political power or are privileged in some way, where does this strange type of inclusivity at the detriment of reality come from?

Re: ECHR confirms ethical veganism is a protected philosophical belief

#50

Post by myvoiceismypass »

SuperNinKenDo wrote: post #17
xvxvx wrote: post #2

I spent 2 weeks in the UK recently and they are light years ahead of the US in terms of veganism and cruelty free products. I was actually quite shocked about how many options the grocery stores had and how almost every restaurant had a vegan option, or even a vegan menu. The trend in the US has been to hide the word ‘vegan’ from consumers and bury it in their website somewhere. Not so in the UK. Brands seem super ha…

I was kind of surprised when I traveled to NY and SF from Melbourne. I knew Melbourne was fairly up there in vego/vegan friendliness, but took it for granted that NY and SF would be a cakewalk. Hardly appalling, but there were times I could not eat anything on the menu at some places and I'm only vegetarian, and in many instances I had only a single option. Was a little strange.

I can confirm that SF is less vegan-friendly today than it was a decade ago. It is quite a bummer.
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