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NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

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Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#131

Post by ryukoposting »

10000truths wrote: post #98
wmf wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every photo will be AI-enhanced and correctly labeled as such. Just like every Web site has a cookie warning.

If that ends up happening, then the next step would be for the platform to derank listings that contain AI-enhanced photos, to set the proper incentive. That would be up to the platform to enforce, though.

It's not "if." My mother-in-law is a realtor. She has a storage locker full of furniture for staging. I guarantee that the monthly cost of that locker, plus the cost of moving the furniture in and out of every property is an order of magnitude more expensive than whatever tool is doing the AI fake staging. The cost savings are too attractive.

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#132

Post by jambalaya8 »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #9
nonethewiser wrote: post #3

How does this work? Seems more like a law but cities dont have legislatures. Or … ?

well, reading the article Mamdani is cracking down on "deceptive landlord practices" thus it means his administration will apply deceptive landlord practice laws to use of AI images in advertising apartments. At some point if somebody wants to fight the issue they can take it to court. As a general rule you probably don't need new laws to penalize behavior you think should be penalized, there are more than enough law…

I think it is basically just signaling to the county DA's as to what they ought to consider when seeking out blatant cases of rental fraud; the laws already exist in the deceptive practices code...

I think an actual law does have to be passed to enact the part literally banning all AI imagery on a five boroughs basis, as opposed to just penalizing inaccurate AI genned imagery... which afaik is municipality based. Pretty sure the City Council needs to codify that.

Not sure who would be responsible for enforcing it on pretty much every site in the world that isn't just the real estate broker or building management/etc, though. Would places like rent.com be legally responsible?

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#133

Post by Eridrus »

enraged_camel wrote: post #122
Eridrus wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, which is why all we're going to get it a label saying that AI was used (or maybe landlords will try to fly through on the label of "virtually staged" that they've been using). Existing law doesn't have the authority to ban all AI images as inherently deceptive, and DCWP isn't going to be spending a bunch of time prosecuting individual images. I agree with Mamdani that these images are often deceptive and misle…

I take it you are a lawyer specializing in NY real estate law, then? Would be interesting to hear a more detailed analysis if so.

I am honestly so surprised that everyone on HN is so naive that they take political statements like this at face value.

Politicians routinely say they will do things they do not have the authority to do, and it's often very important to understanding what will actually happen to have some understanding of what authorities are available to them, or at the very least ask Google/LLMs about it.

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#134

Post by doginasuit »

hbarka wrote: post #111
filoleg wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to lie, I wish they also added a square footage as a legal requirement too. It is entirely baffling to me as to why, but NYC is the only major city in the US I've ever lived in where it is genuinely a problem. In all other cities, I had no issues with that, pretty much every single posting online had square footage. Meanwhile, on StreetEasy (and other platforms listing NYC rental units), looking for apartme…

> and I cannot think of a logical reason to not provide that information. The reason is simple. Omission is deception.

No value is essentially "smaller than you would find acceptable."

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#135

Post by ssl-3 »

lostmsu wrote: post #108
10000truths wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that ends up happening, then the next step would be for the platform to derank listings that contain AI-enhanced photos, to set the proper incentive. That would be up to the platform to enforce, though.

If platform cared they would have fixed problems already.

The platform can't fix what the platform is unaware of.

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#136

Post by valleyer »

enraged_camel wrote: post #122
Eridrus wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, which is why all we're going to get it a label saying that AI was used (or maybe landlords will try to fly through on the label of "virtually staged" that they've been using). Existing law doesn't have the authority to ban all AI images as inherently deceptive, and DCWP isn't going to be spending a bunch of time prosecuting individual images. I agree with Mamdani that these images are often deceptive and misle…

I take it you are a lawyer specializing in NY real estate law, then? Would be interesting to hear a more detailed analysis if so.

The law applies to everyone, so it's reasonable for everyone to try to understand it, not just attorneys.

Similarly, it's fine for people to have opinions on food, dental hygiene, and the tax code without being a chef, a dentist, and an accountant.

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#137

Post by Eridrus »

thenayr wrote: post #70
Eridrus wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's super annoying, but this is a total nothing burger because he doesn't actually have any power to do anything here. This has also been a problem long before AI with "virtually staged" apartments.

Why are you so certain of this? Oh it was a problem before so we should just keep doing nothing even though it will almost certainly become exponentially worse with AI? Love this plan.

I am so certain of this because I was not born yesterday and this is not my first time paying attention to (NYC) politics.

Politician makes a grand statement they do not have the authority to meaningfully act on to get headlines, DCWP issues a weak sauce disclosure rule and the news cycle moves on because this is not actually anybody's priority.

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#138

Post by horusborus »

Eridrus wrote: post #133
enraged_camel wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you are a lawyer specializing in NY real estate law, then? Would be interesting to hear a more detailed analysis if so.

I am honestly so surprised that everyone on HN is so naive that they take political statements like this at face value. Politicians routinely say they will do things they do not have the authority to do, and it's often very important to understanding what will actually happen to have some understanding of what authorities are available to them, or at the very least ask Google/LLMs about it.

[dead]

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#139

Post by Gigachad »

sssilver wrote: post #126
Gigachad wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do a sort of automatic Lightroom edit playing with colors, shadows and masking. They do not invent things that do not exist.

They absolutely do — see https://www.extremetech.com/mobile/samsung-galaxys-beloved-m...

Android phones sure. The iPhone as far as I have seen has stayed away from gimmicks and AI. "Computational photography" is a long shot away from AI generated images. Everything in the iphone photo actually existed much the same as the photo shows, it's just exposure and color being messed with.

If you use post editing tools like magic eraser and the new reframe / expand tools then that's a different story and shouldn't be allowed in real estate photography.

Re: NYC may require landlords and realtors to disclose the use of AI in listings

#140

Post by gruez »

II2II wrote: post #101
Waterluvian wrote: post #62

Isn’t the more thorough solution banning deceptive product advertising? It feels like this is already a whole thing that should already be solved.

Because every time something new comes along, people will push boundaries while arguing it is acceptable. In this case, they may argue that it is no different from physically furnishing an apartment, taking some photos, then removing the furniture. At least in terms of representing the product. Clearly using AI is much easier and cheaper than physically furnishing the apartment for a couple of hours. Some may even ge…

That doesn't answer the question. If you used photoshop's content-aware fill (introduced over a decade ago) to hide imperfections in your apartment, that would still be deceptive advertising. Moreover it's almost as easy as asking AI to do it, so the "AI makes everything easier" excuse doesn't work either.

I think the reason is clear. Politicians love to enact bills for already illegal things, but tailored for the current thing. In this case, it's AI, which there's bipartisan opposition. It makes them look responsive to their constituents and requires no political capital, because it's uncontroversial.

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