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What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

minimaxir.com

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Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#41

Post by margalabargala »

dlenski wrote: post #6

This article reads like a description of gambling-addiction behavior; the author appears to be addicted to using LLMs. He's eagerly awaiting his next hit of dopamine from his favorite model. He's setting timers to be ready for when his next hit comes available. He's spinning up unnecessary queries just to start the timer ticking on new models. You could basically write the same article about some guy who sits in a ca…

> He's spinning up unnecessary queries just to start the timer ticking on new models.

This one just makes sense though. If you have a body of work to do that you know will exceed your 5 hour limit, then sending a message 3 hours before you start so that the reset happens in the middle enables you to do a task in one sitting.

Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#42

Post by margalabargala »

vitaflo wrote: post #32
serf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article reads like a description of gambling-addiction behavior; the author appears to be addicted to using LLMs. you're projecting, it's just insanely irritating to work with a tool that 1) limits its' own use 2) with a random interval. keeping in mind that plenty of people are making money on token use.. this guy sets a timer to wake up for work; he appears to be addicted to work.

If you don’t want 1 or 2 then pay by the token. If that’s too expensive for you then now you know why 1 and 2 exist.

That's fine, but that doesn't mean that people taking steps to get the most out of what they have with 1 and 2 are now somehow gamblers.

Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#43

Post by minimaxir »

chaps wrote: post #39
minimaxir wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said tricks improve the output in an objective measurable manner, not theoretical, vibes, or gambler's fallacy. (blog post forthcoming on that) I've been researching LLM prompt optimization for longer than ChatGPT has existed; I was successfully optimizing the output of GPT-2 back in 2019.

Respectfully, a lot of what you're saying in this thread sounds a lot like the lies that gamblers tell themselves. Saying this as someone with a strong tendency towards addictions. Some of these things are only possible to really see in hindsight. Yes, you've been working on these things for a while, but these systems are notably different in their capacity and strings they pull on us. Be well, please.

Yesterday (unrelated to quotamaxxing described in the article), I made an Apple TV macOS menu bar remote app: https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:oxaerni...

Every single prompt worked without issue, and it got most of the way on the first try with the initial prompt (+ a couple visibility bugs due to the agent not having Computer Vision to see said menu bar app) such as:

> Create a SwiftUI menu bar app named `swiftmote` using theto create the most user friendly app following Apple's HID guidelines for creating a remote that can operate a Apple TV on a local network. Instead of reimplementing the protocols needs to interface with an Apple TV, use the Python package `pyatv` and host it within the SwiftUI app as a sidecar along with a Python installation.

I have my own Apple TV I can manually verify that it worked as expected, which is notable because the agent can't test or lie about this pipeline because it does not have access to the Apple TV.

That is not hallucination or psychosis. If you want, I can release all the prompts I used. (EDIT: Sure, why not, here are the prompts. If I don't complain about something in a followup prompt, assume it worked correctly: https://gist.github.com/minimaxir/30fa820daa1392da13026ec6aa... )

Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#44

Post by SyneRyder »

minimaxir wrote: post #40
dehrmann wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dopamine hits from irregular and uncertain outcomes Like the LLM getting the solution right?

For the problems I work on with GPT 5.6 Sol and the checks and balances I have in place, I estimate: - 80% of prompts get everything correct and are confirmed correct with manual validation - 19% of prompts make a minor mistake based on an ambiguity of the original prompt (user error not LLM error), but then reliably fixed in a followup prompt - 1% of prompts causes more problems than it solves and is more pragmatic…

I think those of us who are using AI consistently believe you and understand. I'd say roughly the same thing about Claude in terms of numbers.

I think many people who don't believe you just haven't built-up the kind of prompt history & MCP / CLI tooling etc that lets you get to the point where things work at that level of accuracy.

Hope it helps to know that at least some of us here understand and are seeing the same thing. And if it's anything like my experience with Fable, "always be more ambitious". The capabilities of the models are often limited only by what you're brave enough to ask for. I keep finding I'm not ambitious enough.

Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#45

Post by fragmede »

dlenski wrote: post #16
serf wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This article reads like a description of gambling-addiction behavior; the author appears to be addicted to using LLMs. you're projecting, it's just insanely irritating to work with a tool that 1) limits its' own use 2) with a random interval. keeping in mind that plenty of people are making money on token use.. this guy sets a timer to wake up for work; he appears to be addicted to work.

> it's just insanely irritating to work with a tool that 1) limits its' own use 2) with a random interval. Do you understand how the psychological response to the "random" disappearance of an annoyance is pretty much exactly the same as the psychological response to the "random" appearance of a reward? I put "random" in square quotes because neither are in fact totally random, but both are clearly quite carefully eng…

How does that mean you're not projecting? Yes if you oversimplify an LLM's responses to be random, and you squint real hard, it kinda resembles gambling, but an essay's worth of words is more meaningful to a human reading them than a human pulling a lever on a slot machine hoping for three sets of three cherries.

Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#47

Post by win311fwg »

drekipus wrote: post #28
dlenski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gambling addition implies dopamine hits from irregular and uncertain outcomes Your post literally describes your fascination with trying to figure out the pattern of a "random" reward that you get, and trying to maximize the value you get out of it. I put "random" in scare quotes because I strongly believe that—just as slot machine payouts are carefully structured to keep you playing—these LLM resets are structured…

>The desire to "not waste money" and "get back to even" seems like a huge part of what motivates gamblers to keep gambling. As someone who had family members go through gambling addiction this is the primary mechanism behind it. Addicts don't see it as "cool fun dopamine kicks" but instead find it the only way they can get back to normal/where they are supposed to be

That seems like an incomplete explanation.

Logically, gambling is like going to the movies. You expect to pay x currency for y value of entertainment. If y falls short of expectations you might feel like you wasted your money, but who becomes addicted to going to the movies to try to get even? There is probably someone who has, but I’ve never heard of it and it doesn’t seem to be common; not like gambling addictions. For all intents and purposes it doesn’t happen.

But gambling addictions do happen, fairly regularly. Perhaps it is loss aversion coupled with the aforementioned dopamine hit associated with gambling that makes it so prevalent?

Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#48

Post by bulbar »

dlenski wrote: post #6

This article reads like a description of gambling-addiction behavior; the author appears to be addicted to using LLMs. He's eagerly awaiting his next hit of dopamine from his favorite model. He's setting timers to be ready for when his next hit comes available. He's spinning up unnecessary queries just to start the timer ticking on new models. You could basically write the same article about some guy who sits in a ca…

Addiction is about negative impact on your private and professional life and the life of those around you and doing things about your will or things you know are bad for you.

Might be the case here, but just setting a timer and being generally hyped about something is not enough for that.

Very weird how convinced some here seem to be that addiction is involved while they apparently don't know anything about the diagnosis criteria.

Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#49

Post by minimaxir »

bulbar wrote: post #48
dlenski wrote: post #6

This article reads like a description of gambling-addiction behavior; the author appears to be addicted to using LLMs. He's eagerly awaiting his next hit of dopamine from his favorite model. He's setting timers to be ready for when his next hit comes available. He's spinning up unnecessary queries just to start the timer ticking on new models. You could basically write the same article about some guy who sits in a ca…

Addiction is about negative impact on your private and professional life and the life of those around you and doing things about your will or things you know are bad for you. Might be the case here, but just setting a timer and being generally hyped about something is not enough for that. Very weird how convinced some here seem to be that addiction is involved while they apparently don't know anything about the diagn…

Ironically my time and focus on agentic prompting and coding has helped me break an actual bad addiction (World of Warcraft)

Re: What's the deal with all the random weekly quota resets for agents lately?

#50

Post by Fordec »

The last few have corresponded to basically within the hour or two of the release of a competing model that is getting good reviews. Twice I've gone "well, I'm over my weekly limit for the next two days, may as well check this out" and almost just as I've finished that thought, a refresh landed and I went to blitz a week of usage in 48 hours instead because once it's gone, it's gone.

Hurray market competition and what capitalism was meant to be. Go above in providing a service or the customer leaves.

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