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Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

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Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#421

Post by mholm »

kowbell wrote: post #298
nikodunk wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was just about to say Roomba too! Next up IMO is Philips Hue, which don't support Matter and cost $25, vs. Matter-enabled Amazon brands that cost $7.

Got any you'd recommend? I've been paying the Hue tax because they're the only bulbs I've had with zero connectivity issues ever across several years, whereas every other brand I've tried has been very unreliable.

I'm in the same boat. Nothing else is as rock solid or has the color accuracy of Hue. You can immediately tell when it's some random brand

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#422

Post by worik »

Robotbeat wrote: post #89
sen wrote: post #13

I’ve owned a lot of Gopro cameras, having done video capture for a variety of motorsports, and they just got too expensive for what you get. You can be more expensive if you’re better, or you can be worse if you’re cheaper, but they’re both the downsides while living purely off brand recognition. They also blew up in a time where there wasn’t any real competition. Sony had action cameras but they were bulkier and exp…

GoPro is a US company designed in U.S. with manufacturing in Thailand, China, and Mexico. Insta360 is a Chinese company designed in Shenzhen and built there, too. People think this doesn’t matter, but GoPros are used all over in aerospace. If we replaced the brand with Insta360, that puts a big attack vector all over the place. A similar pattern happened with drones with DJI, intentionally killing all non-Chinese dro…

> China wants to deindustrialize non-Chinese industries for strategic and/or natsec reasons,

No. Not even close

China wants its place at the table.

With Erope and USA

People seem to think a developed China is a threat. But they are not staying in rural poverty for ever for our sake. That is not a threat.

They are not trying to "deindustrialise" anybody, just finding a place amongst equals

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#423

Post by ajsnigrutin »

Robotbeat wrote: post #89
sen wrote: post #13

I’ve owned a lot of Gopro cameras, having done video capture for a variety of motorsports, and they just got too expensive for what you get. You can be more expensive if you’re better, or you can be worse if you’re cheaper, but they’re both the downsides while living purely off brand recognition. They also blew up in a time where there wasn’t any real competition. Sony had action cameras but they were bulkier and exp…

GoPro is a US company designed in U.S. with manufacturing in Thailand, China, and Mexico. Insta360 is a Chinese company designed in Shenzhen and built there, too. People think this doesn’t matter, but GoPros are used all over in aerospace. If we replaced the brand with Insta360, that puts a big attack vector all over the place. A similar pattern happened with drones with DJI, intentionally killing all non-Chinese dro…

For us living in "the rest of the world", we only have a choice of being spied on by chinese or american companies, and american ones can do a lot more damage to us than chinese.

So if we're getting spied on anyway, why not buy a better product?

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#424

Post by Gigachad »

brk wrote: post #297
yathern wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are dozens of no-brand options on Amazon and Ali that do 4K60fps I have to very strongly disagree with this sentiment. I have personally tested quite a few no-name "4K 60fps" cameras from Amazon and AliExpress. Many of them upscale from 1080 - which is fine I guess - but then in 60fps will use a crop sensor and upscale from like ~640. Even with the more recognizable SJCam and Akaso brands, unless you're payin…

I'll have to try and dig out a couple of the ones I bought and re-verify this. Really though the 60fps doesn't matter for the majority of users. Even the 4K aspect is overkill for most common things. ISTR GoPro moved away from Ambarella SoCs several years ago and rolled their own, but most of the other cameras are using Amba, Novatek, etc., and certainly offer great performance for a fraction of the cost of GoPro.

It’s less that 4k 60fps doesn’t matter, but that most mobile cheap cameras are so poor quality that you don’t see much of a difference. The sensors are so small that switching to 60fps leaves less time for the shutter speed so you end up with a noisy image.

On a good camera the difference is stark.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#425

Post by Robotbeat »

lostlogin wrote: post #261
adrianN wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your country’s industrial and defense policy relies on individual consumers making choices that are worse for them on almost all metrics, it’s time to think about on worse payroll your politicians are.

> who’s payroll your politicians are on It doesn’t even have to be foreign - it can just be corrupt self interest. What other explanation is there for attacking Venezuela and Iran?

I don't even think it's corrupt self-interest. Just idiotic bravado and wanting to settle long held grudges.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#426

Post by chasd00 »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #349
rr808 wrote: post #16

I'm just surprised that an American brand making electronics lasted this long. Even Japanese companies are giving up. No one can compete with China. Apple somehow reigns supreme still. Anyone else?

I will pick an odd example. I was shocked to learn that SpaceX manufactures its ground satellite dishes (that customers need to buy) in Texas. They make more than five million units per year, and are looking to double that number. I am surprised that they did not outsource it to China. Maybe they are concerned about intellectual property theft. Still, that must be a hefty "tax" to pay to manuf in US instead of China.

A common theme between Tesla and SpaceX is obsessive vertical integration. SpaceX is building liquid oxygen (not sure about methane) production facilities at Boca Chica. That way they can make their own and not have to pay for the margin. As for Starlink, they must have found a way to do it better or cheaper or both. On a tangent, the manufacturing expertise in both companies is as impressive as their end products.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#427

Post by whall6 »

tejtm wrote: post #309
jaapz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a free market when one country is heavily subsidizing it's industries

It is not as though other countries could not choose do the same. It seem to me that China choosing to subsidize industry it is not so different than the US choosing to subsidize Roads, Autos and OIL. In both cases it does seem to work splendidly as intended. Other than political inertia (or economic reasons far beyond my ability to fathom) there is nothing to stop the US from following suit. I accept "free market" i…

> roads

I think even the Chicago school would agree that roads should be public

> autos

I absolutely detest US policy with respect to autos so I will not refute this

> oil

Matter of strategic importance that isn’t related to spying or subterfuge. The Nazis probably would have won WWII if they hadn’t run out of diesel. I’m not sure digital cameras come close to this.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#428

Post by bruce511 »

sarchertech wrote: post #397
bruce511 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arms, weapons, fighter jets and so on. The US sounds a trillion $ a year subsidizing the military industrial complex. The US chose their market (arms). The Chinese chose consumer goods. Go figure.

US Arms exports bring in around $13 billion a year. The military industrial complex is a domestic jobs program that sells the vast majority of what it makes domestically. The US is clearly not spending a trillion dollars a year subsidizing defense in order to make their products more competitive in other markets. https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/arms_exports/

I'm not sure I agree. In the aircraft industry especially the US has strongly pushed for exports. Overseas programs (TRS2, Avro Arrow) were terminated for political reasons (and replaced with F111 etc). More recently see F35 impact.

That's before we discuss the advantage Boeing has in the commercial market thanks to DoD contracts.

Your link shows that the US exports the same as the next 20 countries added together. That suggests some market dominance.

I also suspect these numbers do not include "military aid" - where weapons and munitions are "given" by the US to Ukraine wherever[1]. (But they may, I don't know.)

I agree though that the primary benefit of this is not "sales". And even if it was these aren't consumer goods. So it's not easily compared to China's approach. I'm not suggesting it's a terribly good subsidy. But it's still a subsidy.

[1] there are a lot of political benefits to be gained by having bases in foreign countries, or by port visits by US ships. Unfortunately most of those benefits have been eroded in the last 2 years. The gutting of USAid (which saved basically nothing), leaving the WHO, the tarrif nonsense, bombing Iran - all have destroyed a benevolent reputation 75 years in the making.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#429

Post by voicedYoda »

lostlogin wrote: post #261
adrianN wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your country’s industrial and defense policy relies on individual consumers making choices that are worse for them on almost all metrics, it’s time to think about on worse payroll your politicians are.

> who’s payroll your politicians are on It doesn’t even have to be foreign - it can just be corrupt self interest. What other explanation is there for attacking Venezuela and Iran?

Distraction from the Epstein files

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#430

Post by griffinli »

nikodunk wrote: post #235
recursivecaveat wrote: post #225

Extremely similar to iRobot (Roomba). They both practically genericized themselves by inventing and dominating the product category, then just couldn't keep up with the competition. GoPro does feel more self inflicted though. Their drone was a failure, and they burnt a lot of money trying to do some kind of pivot to being a media company.

Was just about to say Roomba too! Next up IMO is Philips Hue, which don't support Matter and cost $25, vs. Matter-enabled Amazon brands that cost $7.

Hue does support Matter. Hue is expensive but delivers a premium experience, unlike the products talked about in this thread that are expensive but not better than the competition.
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