Live data from Hacker News

AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

youtube.com

11–20 of 37 posts

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#11
post #9
post #7

Everyone feels it's a bubble, but the key question is when it will burst. People keep pointing this out in so many places, from Closed loops to everything else. I wish someone would just predict when that moment will come I've seen so many of these articles that I'm actually looking forward to a YouTube video or article that talks about a techno-feudal future, where API tenant farmers become the scenario if AI compan…

I'm not going to predict the moment, because I thought the dotcom bubble would pop back in 1999. I could see how overvalued things were, what I couldn't predict was how long the market would remain irrational.

Honestly, I'd call that more of a wish than a prediction. Because most predictions specify which quarter something will burst. Saying that an industry structure will turn out a certain way is just stating the obvious, since everything eventually declines. Every new industry grows fast in the early days and then bursts. That's just wishful thinking.

Claims like 'it will collapse someday' are actually unfalsifiable. Predictions that specify a quarter, on the other hand, are not. This is exactly why I think so-called pundits are useless. They repeat unfalsifiable claims over and over, and when it finally happens later, they say 'I told you so.' How ridiculous is that? I can make that kind of claim too. 'The US will collapse.' Sure, it will. But who knows if it'll even exist in a thousand years? So honestly, if there's no timeframe, it's meaningless.

But most of what gets posted on HN is exactly this kind of unfalsifiable punditry. I'd rather write a new scenario. A scenario where AI succeeds, we're all classified as API tenant farmers, only a few influencers chosen by OpenAI and Anthropic survive, most programming companies shrink, and a new mega-tech emerges. That would be more fun to write.

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#12
post #9
post #7

Everyone feels it's a bubble, but the key question is when it will burst. People keep pointing this out in so many places, from Closed loops to everything else. I wish someone would just predict when that moment will come I've seen so many of these articles that I'm actually looking forward to a YouTube video or article that talks about a techno-feudal future, where API tenant farmers become the scenario if AI compan…

I'm not going to predict the moment, because I thought the dotcom bubble would pop back in 1999. I could see how overvalued things were, what I couldn't predict was how long the market would remain irrational.

For me, my blind spot has been China. They've maintained their bubble economy for decades longer than I (and a few other smarter people than me) think possible.

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#13
we reached a point where there will always be demand for tokens.

suppose the current frontier models are final and there is no more progress. it still wouldn't matter because the cheaper the tokens the more demand there will be which will drive the silicon demand onward.

consider what you can do if a billion tokens cost cents: you could create a scaffold that would literally burn ungodly numbers of tokens on every conceivable angle. you could create scaffolds that don't just generate the next token but perform MCTS then at the end you keep the best results.

another way to look at it, we know that there is a document in the space of all possible documents which holds an answer to every conceivable solvable problem. but the combinatorics prohibit random exhaustive search. LLM's make exhaustive search somewhat more tractable, because there will probably exist a prompt/chain of thought which can yield it (especially when you can always get experts to poke it with cheap ideas).

creating silicon fabs is probably the most reliable investment at the moment, because there will always be room around the sun. orbital launch is probably less reliable because ocean floors still have a lot of room but it will depend on nuclear regulatory innovations. amusingly, had SpaceX actually gone up it would actually draw parallels to the dotcom bubble as being too soon.

note that tokens aren't just text anymore, MCP is very effective. if nothing else with billions of cheap tokens you will be able to exhaustively create endless virtual worlds with just Unreal Engine MCP - this is the absolute floor. entertainment without end.

and this all with just the current generation models frozen in time. but suppose only the intelligence is frozen, suppose training still works. if it's cheap enough you can always just dump compute on RL on the MCP directly. and the MCP can be something like silicon design...

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#14
post #13

we reached a point where there will always be demand for tokens. suppose the current frontier models are final and there is no more progress. it still wouldn't matter because the cheaper the tokens the more demand there will be which will drive the silicon demand onward. consider what you can do if a billion tokens cost cents: you could create a scaffold that would literally burn ungodly numbers of tokens on every co…

How is this related to the post?

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#15
post #13

we reached a point where there will always be demand for tokens. suppose the current frontier models are final and there is no more progress. it still wouldn't matter because the cheaper the tokens the more demand there will be which will drive the silicon demand onward. consider what you can do if a billion tokens cost cents: you could create a scaffold that would literally burn ungodly numbers of tokens on every co…

How is this related to the post?

    > How is this related to the post?
it argues that AI cannot be a bubble?

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#16
post #7

Everyone feels it's a bubble, but the key question is when it will burst. People keep pointing this out in so many places, from Closed loops to everything else. I wish someone would just predict when that moment will come I've seen so many of these articles that I'm actually looking forward to a YouTube video or article that talks about a techno-feudal future, where API tenant farmers become the scenario if AI compan…

There is a big chance it is happening now. SpaceX lost almost 50% of its ATH value. It will continue dropping. OpenAI and Anthropic won't be able to raise money but they need to. Things are about to get uglier fast.

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this related to the post?

> How is this related to the post? it argues that AI cannot be a bubble?

You are saying that AI is useful.

That doesn't mean there isn't a bubble. The internet is useful and we still had a dot com crash.

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#18
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is this related to the post? it argues that AI cannot be a bubble?

You are saying that AI is useful. That doesn't mean there isn't a bubble. The internet is useful and we still had a dot com crash.

    > The internet is useful and we still had a dot com crash.

    "we reached a point where there will always be demand for tokens."

is it your position that the dotcom crash would have happened had there been demand for more internet at the time?

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#19
The main trend is that models are moving out of cloud to local setup to avoid paying for tokens. This becomes possible due to free open-source models like Kimi K3 that already reached level of the best commercial models.

The second trend is that AI is not mature enough to be used as a human replacement. Maybe as a helper, but even then they need close guidance and check. All these talks about autonomous agents, AI employees. etc - this is all hype that current level of AI technology cannot deliver. Realization of this fact will cause bubble deflation.

Re: AI Bubble vs. Dot Com Crash. History Is Repeating

#20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are saying that AI is useful. That doesn't mean there isn't a bubble. The internet is useful and we still had a dot com crash.

> The internet is useful and we still had a dot com crash. "we reached a point where there will always be demand for tokens." is it your position that the dotcom crash would have happened had there been demand for more internet at the time?

vibecoding is as much demand for AI tokens as pets.com was for early internet ecommerce. Kimi K3 is already crashing this.
Post reply on HN