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Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

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Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#371

Post by TheJoeMan »

arjie wrote: post #281

It’s the classic situation. China can outcompete all this stuff. It doesn’t really matter. Roomba, GoPro, they’re all going to be crushed by Chinese manufacturers. You just can’t get the margins to work anywhere else and if you do the R&D you’re a sucker. I’ve had a few GoPros and a few GoPro 360s. I also had Roombas so you can blame me as the brand killer.

If you look at these US high-tech consumer products, many companies started out much “simpler”. GoPro was a disposable film camera and a wrist-strap, and iteratively got to where it is today. The iPod came out much before the iPhone. As you say, the R&D is a hard sell when you have to go from 0 product to a fully featured state-of-the-art. Somehow, these Chinese companies can spend years copying and then once locked in go on a new-features blitz.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#372

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

gruez wrote: post #186
nikisweeting wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and the US famously never subsidizes any of its industries...

Which industries are the US leading in because of subsidies?

Ever wondered why everything in the USA contains corn syrup? Because sugar is artificially expensive (roughly double the global price) due to import tariffs that protect US sugar cane farmers.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#373

Post by nicbou »

jaapz wrote: post #160
gchamonlive wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reads to me like it's free market doing its job, if you think of countries as companies. US just needs to step up its game.

It's not really a free market when one country is heavily subsidizing it's industries

It's not much more of a free market when giant corporations do.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#374

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

watwut wrote: post #359
jaapz wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a free market when one country is heavily subsidizing it's industries

This particular complaint is tripple hypocritical. US whole deal is to sell under price until competition dies and only then bring up prices or remove offering. It winner takes all econony is literally based on destroying the competition as such.

Ignoring foreign patents also played a big part in US industrialization.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#375

Post by lostlogin »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #343
lostlogin wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the level of subsidy that’s ok?

I'll take a stab. How about something like not more than 50% greater than OECD average per industry? My point: It seems reasonable that some countries was to specialise in certain areas. For example: Taiwan and (East!) Germany chose to build-out their semiconductor industry starting in the 1980s. It has paid pretty good dividends with a healthy amount of industrial subsidies. I also think the OECD should be raising t…

Appeals to fairness are difficult to accept when the rest of us out here in the world have been hurt by the US imposing tariffs and sanctions on us over the past few decades, and with intense chaotic energy in the last few years.

How do we make a system everyone is to abide by when the US can just rewrite the rules when it suits? Order collapses when a huge country behaves this way.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#376

Post by lostlogin »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #340
lostlogin wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So ridiculous. So a bit of subsidy is ok, but no more than the US does? As a country that’s suffered from the US subsidising its own industries, my sympathy is zero.

> As a country that’s suffered from the US subsidising its own industries What country and what industries? I am curious. Do you think that you own country does not do the same to others?

> What country and what industries?

New Zealand. Meat exports and dairy.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#377

Post by stevage »

arjie wrote: post #281

It’s the classic situation. China can outcompete all this stuff. It doesn’t really matter. Roomba, GoPro, they’re all going to be crushed by Chinese manufacturers. You just can’t get the margins to work anywhere else and if you do the R&D you’re a sucker. I’ve had a few GoPros and a few GoPro 360s. I also had Roombas so you can blame me as the brand killer.

Is GoPro not manufactured in China?

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#378

Post by Scroll_Swe »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #296
bambax wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't pay more to get a better drone than DJI's. You can pay more (although it's difficult) to get a worse drone. Much worse.

Next year you'll have a fair old choice of drones from Ukrainian manufacturers though, when they're no longer needed to defeat Putin.

And remember dear readers, China and Iran openly helps Russia in their invasion of Ukraine. It is like the cold war never ended.

China's covert military training of Russian forces last year was personally approved by President Vladimir Putin's defence minister and directly involved at least four Russian and Chinese generals, according to two European officials and documents seen by Reuters.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-ap...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Support_for_Russia_in_the_Russ...

One of EUs biggest trading partners wants Ukraine to lose to Russia...

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch...

Iran helps with Shaeed Drones as known

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136#Geran-2

With Chinese parts btw.

North Korea is in too with 10k troops at least and massive ammo. Traded for food and wheat from Ukraine.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#379

Post by t0mpr1c3 »

inigyou wrote: post #314
tyre wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would presume that the founder is investing their money into something, probably equities, that is an investment in industry. They could be either selling those equities for a loan here or taking a loan against those equities to loan to GoPro (if the cost of capital is lower for them than GoPro, which seems plausible.) I generally agree with your point about value extraction vs. re-investment.

Equities aren't investment in industry except when there's an IPO or SPO. The rest of the time, it's zero-sum.

What you just said makes no sense. How can equities come into existence except via an IPO or similar mechanism?

Equities are literally investments in business. Equity is a line in the balance sheet for every corporation.

Re: Is this the end of the once-mighty GoPro?

#380

Post by Scroll_Swe »

arcbyte wrote: post #70
embedding-shape wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it common in American factories to have US flags hanging on the walls similar to how dictators like to hang their portraits in factories? Never seen that in the (admitted small amount) of factories I've visited around in Europe, but tends to also give off a bit of "too much nationalism" vibe around here unless there is a special event, the US flag seems to be treated differently in the US so maybe it's a common si…

In general, we Americans really, really love our country. Our flag still represents values tied closely to our revolutionary war and and independence. Obviously the flag gets wrapped around all sorts of causes, even contradictory ones, but that core kernel of shared values is truly universal. So as individuals we choose to fly the flag a lot.

I much prefer this over how scared we are here in Sweden of our own flag.
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