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The Kimi K3 Moment

stephen.bochinski.dev

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Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#231

Post by nonethewiser »

NitpickLawyer wrote: post #98
jstummbillig wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Distillation “attacks” are not attacks. If "distillation attacks" happen, we have to conclude there is some value add in what model labs do. Regardless of how we feel about using existing human knowledge in the way they currently do, it's simply impractical to infer that everything that happens downstream of LLMs can not be an attack on some IP because of it. So both things can be true: a) People infringe on Anthro…

> People infringe on Anthropics IP Unless someone literally stole the weights somehow (which is not out of the question, I doubt either oAI/Anthropic have the capabilities to prevent a state-level actor getting those weights), distillation from generations is not infringement on anyone's IP nor is it stealing nor is it an attack. It can't be. As long as you pay for tokens you get to do whatever you want with them. So…

Its definitely an attack. Thats established from anthropics perspective. No one has a right to use Anthropic’s services in ways that directly violate the ToS and user agreements.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#232

Post by j-bos »

SwellJoe wrote: post #8

I tried Kimi K3 on a task I've done with every other model I use regularly ( https://swelljoe.com/post/i-let-every-agent-implement-its-ow... ) and found it chewed a lot longer on the problem and ate up almost the entirety of a 5 hour usage limit on their $19 plan. I only have the $20 plan from OpenAI and the same task, with a lot of the same implementation details as Kimi Code, only took a few minutes and consumed al…

Aren't they still locking reasoning to "max" pending adjustments to support shorter reasoning levels.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#233

Post by beambot »

tristanj wrote: post #192
andriy_koval wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us models didnt pay for licenses too

That is incorrect. Anthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. OpenAI pays hundreds of millions per year across 150+ licensing deals for access to copyrighted data. Meta and Alphabet have similar arrangements. Under the settlement, Anthropic was forced to delete the pirated data they were training on. Chinese labs can still train on pirated data. I doubt…

They settled with a subset of copyright holders. Guarantee they violated lots of others' rights in the process

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#234

Post by reinitctxoffset »

aliasxneo wrote: post #90

Even in this very thread the feedback on Kimi's actual efficacy is debated. I personally feel its worse than both Fable and 5.6 Sol, but I feel like the conversation isn't really about whether its good or not, but a backlash against the U.S governments foray into regulation. So I think people _want_ it to be superior out of anger/frustration with the current situation.

When you net out across benchmarks and firsthand reviews it seems like it's maybe a little behind. There seems to be a consensus it's token hungry and a little slower. So maybe it's a point release behind.

That's weeks maybe months behind, not months maybe a year behind. It's "would my life really change if Claude was gone, not really" behind.

I actually haven't used it much, because Claude started kicking ass again the last few days. Like, way too much of a difference to be normal load-based variance. I got more done in the last 48 hours than week before that.

So, fuck yeah competition.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#235

Post by nonethewiser »

j-bos wrote: post #232
SwellJoe wrote: post #8

I tried Kimi K3 on a task I've done with every other model I use regularly ( https://swelljoe.com/post/i-let-every-agent-implement-its-ow... ) and found it chewed a lot longer on the problem and ate up almost the entirety of a 5 hour usage limit on their $19 plan. I only have the $20 plan from OpenAI and the same task, with a lot of the same implementation details as Kimi Code, only took a few minutes and consumed al…

Aren't they still locking reasoning to "max" pending adjustments to support shorter reasoning levels.

Why would they do that? Sounds terrible

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#236

Post by eichin »

polotics wrote: post #215
tristanj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is incorrect. Anthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. OpenAI pays hundreds of millions per year across 150+ licensing deals for access to copyrighted data. Meta and Alphabet have similar arrangements. Under the settlement, Anthropic was forced to delete the pirated data they were training on. Chinese labs can still train on pirated data. I doubt…

really!? nobody paid me anything for my comments on HN.

The only ones getting paid this time around had registered copyrights (in the US at that.)

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#237

Post by nonethewiser »

xyzsparetimexyz wrote: post #218
osti wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely do not pay for the kimi plans thinking they will be cheaper. If you sign up with a Chinese phone number, you can get the same plan for 200 yuan instead of 200 usd, it also only accepts Chinese payment methods iirc. So the plans are really made for Chinese userbase.

Wow! Does it accept a foreign alipay/wechat pay account?

Those exist?

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#238

Post by idiotsecant »

tristanj wrote: post #192
andriy_koval wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Us models didnt pay for licenses too

That is incorrect. Anthropic paid $1.5 billion in compensation to copyright holders for use of their content in training data. OpenAI pays hundreds of millions per year across 150+ licensing deals for access to copyrighted data. Meta and Alphabet have similar arrangements. Under the settlement, Anthropic was forced to delete the pirated data they were training on. Chinese labs can still train on pirated data. I doubt…

That's like saying someone is a big proponent of community law and order, and they donated $1000 to the county sheriff when actually they got caught drunk speeding in a school zone.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#239

Post by damsta »

credit_guy wrote: post #205

I think it's the opposite. Kimi K3 has 2.8 trillion parameters. We don't know the number of parameters of ChatGPT 5.6 or Opus 4.8, but it's probably in the same region. Fable/Mythos are rumored to be around 10 trillion. So, K3 is directly comparable with ChatGPT 5.6 and Opus 4.8, and the price is not so much lower: K3: $3/$15 per 1 Mtok input/output ChatGPT 5.6 Sol: $5/$30 Opus 4.8: $5/$25 This is not a watershed mom…

> As for the open weights? For now, Kimi K3's weights are closed, and I don't expect the situation would change.

It'll change on July 27 (based on https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3):

> The full model weights will be released by July 27, 2026

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#240

Post by WhyNotHugo »

Pricing is actually far cheaper than that. There's two tiers of pricing: Chinese and US.

If you sign up with non-Chinese phone number, you're bucketed into US, you get US prices, can pay only in USD and with American credit card network.

Chinese prices are about 9x cheaper than the US prices, which are already far cheaper than Claude or other American provider. If you can somehow get hold of a Chinese phone number, keep in mind that you can save ~90% of the bill.

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