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LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

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Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#341

Post by sbrother »

orbital-decay wrote: post #314
dimgl wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you recommend instead? In my opinion the Razer mice are always superior for FPS.

Some Razer mice were somewhat good in the times when the sensor mattered, with the rest of them being absolute garbage (starting with the Copperhead which barely worked). Today there's a ton of niche manufacturers with great internals that will exceed any requirements you might possibly have. If you're really interested in FPS performance and not just the brand, choose for the ergonomics first, it's not possible to r…

> choose for the ergonomics first

This is unfortunately why I keep buying the Razer Deathadder Pro. It fits my hand perfectly and is super accurate. I hate their software, and the company, but the performance and ergonomics of the mouse are worth it to me.

Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#342

Post by vladvasiliu »

d_k_f wrote: post #108
vladvasiliu wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a logitech mouse and I'm pretty sure I was asked whether to install the logitech app, it didn't do it automatically. Same for the dell mouse I have at work, it asked to install dell somethingorother, which I declined, and it left me alone.

Anecdata from two days ago, after installing a fresh Windows 10: after inserting the dongle, a definitely non-native (styled by Logitech) popup asks me whether I want to install their app. I decline. One reboot later, the app is available in the start menu. Edit: To be fair, I immediately uninstalled it, so I don't know if this was "just" a link to their installer app or the full app. But something definitely got dow…

Yeah, the questions showed up in non-native dialogues in both cases. I installed the Logitech one, but not the Dell. But then again, even freaking Office looks non-native on Windows, so I don't really pay attention to this aspect.

Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#343

Post by ak217 »

dimgl wrote: post #288
Chaosvex wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Razer was always low quality garbage at premium prices. Gamer marketing for you.

What do you recommend instead? In my opinion the Razer mice are always superior for FPS.

Logitech all the way.

Logitech is a truly innovative company. They actually care deeply about ergonomics. They also introduced the first mass market application of programmable magnets (in the MX Master mouse scroll wheel) - that's incredibly advanced materials science.

Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#344

Post by thewebguyd »

orbital-decay wrote: post #128
devttyeu wrote: post #20

This is so much worse that the title makes it out to be: 1. Your OS installs malware (technically manufacturers software) from a 3rd party vendor in background, zero user interaction 2. Happens as soon as you or anyone with physical access plug in a device into the HDMI port 3. That malware has internet and full system access, no sandboxing 4. It starts with every system boot 5. This software gets installed when you…

>This situation has.. no precedent as far as I can tell.. Printer, mouse, tablet and display tablet makers use this to insert their crapware since at least Windows Vista or Windows 7, I think. The last one I remember is plugging a Razer mouse just to watch it instantly pulling 1.5GB of bloated junk with "telemetry" exfiltrating the data from my gaming PC in realtime. At least it doesn't leave my mouse in a non-workin…

> but aren't even using it to block these contraptions

Even worse, this one is installed via Windows update. I have an LG monitor and noticed the stupid LG app all of the sudden, uninstalled it, and saw it pop up again as an update in Windows update.

Microsoft is actively enabling this behavior.

Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#345

Post by threetonesun »

VorpalWay wrote: post #232
threetonesun wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then what, ever single gaming mouse/keyboard config is going to appear in the Windows UI dialog? I think extra options in an app is fine, but you should have to download it. At which point who knows what you’ve opened yourself to but at least you chose to do it.

> And then what, ever single gaming mouse/keyboard config is going to appear in the Windows UI dialog? Actually, why not? The driver could declare a list/tree of extra configurable options, and windows could generate a configuration dialog for them. I think this is already is thing in Windows for NICs, I remember seeing TCP offload options when I go into properties for a NIC in the device manager. You just need to ma…

As a user I agree, but I think this misunderstands the Windows market. Forget about mice for a second, if you look at GPU drivers between Linux and Windows on Linux they... just work, and you can use some apps to modify exposed features, like you said.

On Windows out of the box they kind of work, but you really need a manufacturer's software suite to take full advantage of them, and that software suite is, surprise, an advertising and analytics platform, a situation I think both Microsoft and the peripheral manufacturers are very happy with.

Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#346

Post by miki123211 »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #135
mrbluecoat wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very helpful, thank you. But it does remind me of that Yzma quote in The Emperor's New Groove: "Why do we even have that lever?"

> Why do we even have that lever For plug-and-play devices with multiple configuration knobs. It is nice to be able to click through a printer wizard to configure how one wants to print their documents. Likewise with an audio interface: loopback settings, codec, sampling rate, gain and volume of channels, etc. Or consider a USB CNC mill; configuring things like milling revolution rate, setting which bit is installed,…

For audio interfaces, HDAudio lets you do most of this. What the extra software gives you instead is often some crappy DSP that increases latency and messes with sound quality.

For years, Dell's / Realtek's software had an unpaged memory leak somewhere. If you were using a screen reader (I guess they must interact with audio devices in some very specific way that Realtek hasn't accounted for), your system would eventually run out of RAM and BSOD. They didn't fix this until Microsoft and a few screen reader vendors intervened. "Don't buy Dell" was a standard recommendation in the blind community for years, which didn't help if you had a work PC with no local admin.

Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#348

Post by miki123211 »

VorpalWay wrote: post #244
AlienRobot wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me on Windows 7: I don't want to use Linux, you have to keep configuring every single thing so it works. Me on Linux: I don't want to use Windows, you have to keep configuring every single thing so it doesn't show ads.

Linux usability has come a long way in recent years. I switched full time to Linux in 2006, but I can absolutely understand those who wouldn't back then. These days? Unless there is a specific piece of software that can't run on Linux (or under Wine), and there is no suitable replacement for it? Yeah I don't know why you would voluntarily stay on Windows (note voluntarily, if IT policy says you must that doesn't coun…

Accessibility.

All accessibility stacks sucks in some respect, but Linux's sucks most of all, and Wayland people in particular don't seem to be willing to compromise on security (which is required for accessibility to work).

Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#349

Post by orbital-decay »

sbrother wrote: post #341
orbital-decay wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Razer mice were somewhat good in the times when the sensor mattered, with the rest of them being absolute garbage (starting with the Copperhead which barely worked). Today there's a ton of niche manufacturers with great internals that will exceed any requirements you might possibly have. If you're really interested in FPS performance and not just the brand, choose for the ergonomics first, it's not possible to r…

> choose for the ergonomics first This is unfortunately why I keep buying the Razer Deathadder Pro. It fits my hand perfectly and is super accurate. I hate their software, and the company, but the performance and ergonomics of the mouse are worth it to me.

DA has probably the most widely cloned shape in the market and has many identical or compatible alternatives and clones, check e.g. MCHOSE A7 Ultra RE or Pulsar Xlite v4 Large (never had either so can't vouch for their software)

https://www.eloshapes.com/mouse/compare?p=razer-deathadder-v...

https://www.rtings.com/mouse/tools/3d-model-shape-compare/3d...

Re: LG monitors silently install software through Windows Update without consent

#350

Post by toast0 »

MatejKafka wrote: post #242
coldtea wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it worked great since it would pull all necessary drivers after installation without you going hunting on the internet like in the Windows XP days. A driver shouldn't be a front-facing program that shows ads of any kind. It should be sandboxed and follow strict APIs to talk to the OS and that's it - any extra options should be shown inline in the main e.g. printer or mouse dialog.

How exactly do you propose to sandbox drivers running in kernel space? Do you even know how drivers work? (I'm guessing no, based on this comment)

Microsoft has a program to do static and dynamic analysis of drivers... not a sandbox, but better than nothing. Of course, wonky drivers plus wonky hardware can still do bad things (io-mmu can help, a bit).

The problems tend to be in the userspace software that's also installed with the driver. Sometimes there's also some pretty derpy stuff where the driver wants to talk to the userspace software but there's no validation/verification and that opens up a big hole.

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