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I Owe My Life to the Commodore 64

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Re: I Owe My Life to the Commodore 64

#101

Post by perilunar »

aa-jv wrote: post #81
bruce511 wrote: post #7

There was this era in the late 70's and early 80's where this story is ubiquitous. And while we are all in our 50s or later now, it's interesting that we were essentially the "first generation". When I went to work in the early 90s we were already the "old guys". Out in the real world everyone[1] who could use a computer at all was under 30. And we'd all cut our teeth on Apple 2's and Spectrum and Commodore and BBC a…

Those of us who grew up with computers are truly a special breed, since we had to know how things work in order to do anything at all with the things. These days kids are served eyeball-bleeding chaos on the supercomputers in their pocket, which they need permission to do anything else with .. and its kind of sad. Learn what a byte is, kids. Learn where it fits into a register and why. Learn a few opcodes, some perip…

> which they need permission to do anything else with

Not really. You can run pretty much anything you want if you build for the web.

Re: I Owe My Life to the Commodore 64

#102

Post by evanelias »

weinzierl wrote: post #99
evanelias wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you figure? Commodore had strong sales through the late 80s, and the C64 wasn't discontinued until 1994. My family's C64 was the first computer I ever used, and I am barely in my mid 40s. And although my family later purchased an IBM PC clone around '89 or '90, that just meant the C64 moved into my older brother's room, where we used it even more.

Life expectancy for most people on HN should be around 72 (give or take), so mid life is in your mid thirties. Also, using the Commodore in the 90's is probably pretty rare.

"Mid thirties" is absolutely not a common definition of mid life. For reference, Wikipedia defines "middle age" as being the age range from 40 to 64, based on citing nine different sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_age

And also why do you believe the life expectancy for HN users (mostly adults, large portion based in US) is only 72?!

Re: I Owe My Life to the Commodore 64

#103

Post by weinzierl »

evanelias wrote: post #102
weinzierl wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy for most people on HN should be around 72 (give or take), so mid life is in your mid thirties. Also, using the Commodore in the 90's is probably pretty rare.

"Mid thirties" is absolutely not a common definition of mid life. For reference, Wikipedia defines "middle age" as being the age range from 40 to 64, based on citing nine different sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_age And also why do you believe the life expectancy for HN users (mostly adults, large portion based in US) is only 72?!

Sure and there you have the problem. No wonder people who do not take mid life literally and plan as if half of it is over with 36 (or let it be 40 if you must) are in crisis with 50. "Midlife" is really just an euphemism for "old, but in denial".

Re: I Owe My Life to the Commodore 64

#104

Post by aa-jv »

perilunar wrote: post #101
aa-jv wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those of us who grew up with computers are truly a special breed, since we had to know how things work in order to do anything at all with the things. These days kids are served eyeball-bleeding chaos on the supercomputers in their pocket, which they need permission to do anything else with .. and its kind of sad. Learn what a byte is, kids. Learn where it fits into a register and why. Learn a few opcodes, some perip…

> which they need permission to do anything else with Not really. You can run pretty much anything you want if you build for the web.

Then thats using other peoples computers. I want to use my computer, for my purposes. That needs permission.

Re: I Owe My Life to the Commodore 64

#105

Post by aa-jv »

sungjwoo wrote: post #95
aa-jv wrote: post #79

1977; I was with my Mum visiting one of her friends. Bored out of my mind I poked around her living room and peeked underneath a cover, expecting to see a typewriter - it was a teletype terminal with the earcup telephone/modem receptacle, a stream of z-paper folds neatly piled up like some holy sacrament, with which my Mums friend was learning computing. She taught me a few commands, which I still remember and use to…

Holy cow!! Tech has been like a coiling vine around the trunk of your life, and what a life it's been. The C64 was just one of your many computer branches. :)

Indeed. ;)

I consider it a blessing that I grew up with computers. We both came of age about the same time, even ..

Re: I Owe My Life to the Commodore 64

#106

Post by aa-jv »

raddan wrote: post #96
aa-jv wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those of us who grew up with computers are truly a special breed, since we had to know how things work in order to do anything at all with the things. These days kids are served eyeball-bleeding chaos on the supercomputers in their pocket, which they need permission to do anything else with .. and its kind of sad. Learn what a byte is, kids. Learn where it fits into a register and why. Learn a few opcodes, some perip…

I 100% agree with you, but as a person who came up in the tail end of the generation we’re discussing (we bought a bargain bin TI-99/4a at K-Mart) and also a faculty member who has been teaching young people how to program for the last ten years, I can tell you that the overwhelming response they have to your exhortation is “WHY?” The current crop of computer users is basically everybody, and the current crop of CS s…

This exact phenomenon is, I believe, as a result of the separation of the compiler tools from the operating system. If the iPhone generation were able to write software for the iPhone, with the iPhone, there wouldn't be such a vacuum "Why?" being asked by your students .. they'd have tons of examples of great stuff they could do, without requiring permission, with the supercomputers in their pocket.

Its just that entire generations have evolved now to treat their computers as commoditized services - as you noted - and don't understand that they could, as users, program the thing themselves.

Our industry has rigorously enforced hierarchical structures in place to make sure this doesn't happen, and it sucks.

This is why I believe we should not be teaching comp-sci students with modern computers. We should start out by teaching them to program old computers, first - and then let them catch up with the current market in the last few years of their studies.

Re: I Owe My Life to the Commodore 64

#107

Post by aa-jv »

sungjwoo wrote: post #93
aa-jv wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great! Did you ever visit Austria? Maybe you can take some of the early impressions of German-language speaking with you ..

I have visited Austria many times, on my own with my wife and also thanks to a friend who was stationed there for a few years. Vienna is such a lovely city, and I got to see one of my favorite paintings (maybe my most favorite painting, really), Gustave Klimt's The Kiss, in person at Belvedere. My aunt lives a number of hours away from Vienna so I never got to see her there, so a return trip is not out of the questio…

I regularly take friends and family visiting Vienna to see The Kiss, its a common waypoint in our tours of the city. Glad you love the city, it is indeed a very fun place to live .. although, in some ways, a bit like a small country town.
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