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The state of open source AI

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Re: The state of open source AI

#301

Post by kamranjon »

dmarcos wrote: post #251
pdimitar wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who might that be, I wonder? The company that seems more worried about executive bonuses than to adhere to its mission, for at least a decade now? Perhaps a certain one whose name starts with M and ends with ozilla? Purely random thought, of course.

I don’t know. thinking machines perhaps? A lot of things have to come together: talent, capital that is not looking to maximize returns, ambition to compete in the marketplace. At peak Mozilla it was clear to everyone that we needed an undeniably successful product to be able to influence the market. Advocacy alone is not very effective.

I also think Allen AI with their Olmo models are doing great stuff by releasing full training data and pipelines and checkpoints which I’m not sure any other US company is really coming close to transparency-wise.

Re: The state of open source AI

#302

Post by kamranjon »

georgeburdell wrote: post #299
andrekandre wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is this something you actually tried?

Qwen will have an aneurysm if you ask that exact question. Don’t know about others as I don’t have access to them at work

The difference is that because they are open weights, it’s trivial to decensor the models with abliteration and you’ll generally see decensored versions within days of new releases - something you just can’t do with proprietary models from frontier labs.

Re: The state of open source AI

#303

Post by 40four »

hughw wrote: post #182

This presentation is painful to read. It's an LLM's idea of a CTO presentation. I'm overwhelmed by charts, only slightly connected to the text around them. But no matter, it looks like a CTO slide deck. HIGH IMPACT. Much better would be if the CTO of Mozilla had actually articulated their own analysis.

The charts are certainly overwhelming. I had to tap out half way through maybe

Re: The state of open source AI

#304

Post by kamranjon »

semiquaver wrote: post #224

I am sad that there doesn’t seem to be any community whatsoever around _truly_ open models that are released with source data and training methodology, such that they could actually be reproduced given the resources. We’ve allowed the term “open” to be diluted to a shocking extent.

Allen AI is fighting the good fight with their Olmo models - I’m hoping for a new release soon. Also huggingface has released some pretty nice smaller models with open pipelines like Smollm.

Re: The state of open source AI

#305

Post by fc417fc802 »

andrekandre wrote: post #282
georgeburdell wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One day in early June you’re going to need to parse an error log, and when you ask a Chinese LLM “What happened on June 4?” it will respond “absolutely nothing”

is this something you actually tried?

It doesn't matter. Assume it's hyperbolic and the point still stands.

Of course all the other models from everywhere else in the world will also refuse to engage on various topics so the point is hardly limited to china.

Re: The state of open source AI

#306

Post by anon373839 »

georgeburdell wrote: post #299
andrekandre wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is this something you actually tried?

Qwen will have an aneurysm if you ask that exact question. Don’t know about others as I don’t have access to them at work

Out of curiosity, I just tried this exact question with Qwen 3.6. It proceeded to look through my git commit history and then gave me a summary of the changes committed on June 4...

Of course, yes, the models will provide propaganda-aligned responses to prompts that specifically mention certain political issues. I don't care for this behavior, but it's virtually never triggered in everyday use, and can be trained out if so desired.

Re: The state of open source AI

#308

Post by Alpha3031 »

dannyw wrote: post #291
dmarcos wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outcome is plausible. Open weights models though look like a tactical more than a principled play by Chinese companies to overcome the disadvantage and difficulties to access western markets. Two issues: 1. If market conditions change they might decide to close down like Meta did. 2. If as you said models keep getting more expensive to train, is an open weights strategy financially sustainable? edit: typo

I'm confident we will continue to see improvements in edge models at minimum. For example, Google has a vested interest in making Gemma as good as it can, because ultimately any edge inference is free for Google and they have a massive install base. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple eventually trained their own foundational models, and while it'd be surprising, I wouldn't be shocked if Apple also released open weight…

Apple does have its own models for on-device use and the newest series has a MoE with expert activation swapped per prompt instead of per token which is interesting.

I'd assume it's probably somewhat based off Gemini distillation or something, and I'm not expecting them to release the weights this time at least, but it would definitely be interesting to see an open local model using a similar MoE whether that's at a similar size (20B A1–4B supposedly) or a larger model (something DeepSeek V4 Flash sized, or slightly smaller, would just barely fit on consumer hardware, and could be fun to see how it performs I think).

Re: The state of open source AI

#309

Post by slashdave »

babblingfish wrote: post #6

Speculation: open models is what will kill Anthropic and OpenAI. Hyperscalers can run the models without a licensing fee. Apple can make them smaller and put them on the device. The frontier models are an edge and a liability. They're astronomically expensive to train. Without them, their models will fade into obscurity. Their marketing depends on people believing the models are meaningfully different, as people have…

> Speculation

At least some honesty here

Re: The state of open source AI

#310

Post by slashdave »

ButlerianJihad wrote: post #294
vitally3643 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably pretty likely, but if we're honest, are LLMs built and funded by a hostile Chinese authoritarian regime any more dangerous or harmful than LLMs built and funded by a hostile American authoritarian regime? China absolutely does not have my best interests at heart, but America's technofascism is probably more immediately dangerous and harmful. Americans genuinely have more to fear from America than Chin…

If you think about it, every corporation is essentially a fascist entity, or features many distinctly fascist aspects, in terms of internal governance, structure, culture, and relationship with the outside world. And I think that is why Americans haven't really resisted this trajectory, because so many Americans work within corporations as a fact of life, that they are quite accustomed to the workings of fascism, as…

Corporations don't have armies and prisons.

Get a grip.

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