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The state of open source AI

stateofopensource.ai

291–300 of 379 posts

Re: The state of open source AI

#291

Speculation: open models is what will kill Anthropic and OpenAI. Hyperscalers can run the models without a licensing fee. Apple can make them smaller and put them on the device. The frontier models are an edge and a liability. They're astronomically expensive to train. Without them, their models will fade into obscurity. Their marketing depends on people believing the models are meaningfully different, as people have…

The outcome is plausible. Open weights models though look like a tactical more than a principled play by Chinese companies to overcome the disadvantage and difficulties to access western markets. Two issues: 1. If market conditions change they might decide to close down like Meta did. 2. If as you said models keep getting more expensive to train, is an open weights strategy financially sustainable? edit: typo

I'm confident we will continue to see improvements in edge models at minimum.

For example, Google has a vested interest in making Gemma as good as it can, because ultimately any edge inference is free for Google and they have a massive install base.

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple eventually trained their own foundational models, and while it'd be surprising, I wouldn't be shocked if Apple also released open weight edge models one day. Their Mac business is benefiting a lot from local AI, and for an extremely long list of reasons, Apple doesn't want either OpenAI or Anthropic to "win" and supersede their walled gardens as the first entry point.

There are a lot of incentives for open weight, Mistral is probably going to keep on making at least some open models, and meanwhile in the image generation space, we've got Krea 2, Ideogram 4, and BFL continues to ship most of their models as weights available (but under non-commercial licenses).

Oooh, and NVIDIA has been releasing open source ML, and now LLM models for what, a decade? NVIDIA likes selling hardware, Nemotron models, while rarely topping leaderboards (probably not benchmaxxed), are generally fine and really great models for fine-tuning or CPT.

Re: The state of open source AI

#293
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open models are probably also comparatively astronomically expensive to train - just less so than the frontier models because they’re somewhat smaller, +/- the creators are more incentivised to focus on getting more from less compute because they’re have to, +/- they rely on distillation of the frontier models and this is more efficient. But efficiencies aside; creation of open models still requires a lot of money an…

In the US and Europe its extremely expensive indeed. In China it is much lower and expected to be much lower in the future when China can bake their own high end chips. You know China is focussed on optimizing production and manufacturing. Unlike the west that primarily focus on regulations that make things super expensive.

Engineers at the top of the pyramid in China, Lawyers on top of the pyramid in America.

Re: The state of open source AI

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outcome is plausible. Open weights models though look like a tactical more than a principled play by Chinese companies to overcome the disadvantage and difficulties to access western markets. Two issues: 1. If market conditions change they might decide to close down like Meta did. 2. If as you said models keep getting more expensive to train, is an open weights strategy financially sustainable? edit: typo

That's probably pretty likely, but if we're honest, are LLMs built and funded by a hostile Chinese authoritarian regime any more dangerous or harmful than LLMs built and funded by a hostile American authoritarian regime? China absolutely does not have my best interests at heart, but America's technofascism is probably more immediately dangerous and harmful. Americans genuinely have more to fear from America than Chin…

If you think about it, every corporation is essentially a fascist entity, or features many distinctly fascist aspects, in terms of internal governance, structure, culture, and relationship with the outside world.

And I think that is why Americans haven't really resisted this trajectory, because so many Americans work within corporations as a fact of life, that they are quite accustomed to the workings of fascism, as manifested by the corporation.

And it stands to reason that the greatest proponents of this would be extracted from the corporate elite, funded and supported by corporate interests.

Re: The state of open source AI

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google (via smartphones) are in literally everyone's pocket. Running KIMI on a phone is not possible today and I agree with you that it will "probably be years before..." it is. But how many years do you guess? I personally do not think it will take even 10 years for the situation to be commonplace.

> I personally do not think it will take even 10 years for the situation to be commonplace. Do you personally remember how far smartphones progressed in the past 10 years? It's not as long a time as you think it is, the limits of what a smartphone GPU is capable of did not substantially change in that time. Nor did the amount of onboard RAM that we include in the package. This is true even for Nvidia's ARM SOCs, fran…

It won’t take 10 years, 3 years maybe 4 years, depends on the next two hardware generations that and whether or not the current memory fiasco is solved.

Re: The state of open source AI

#296
post #266
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't crash the stock market by preferring Chinese models.

I absolutely would. Let the bubble burst.

so using glm will crash my stocks and make me poorer? damn. thats quite a high price to pay for use then

Re: The state of open source AI

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One day in early June you’re going to need to parse an error log, and when you ask a Chinese LLM “What happened on June 4?” it will respond “absolutely nothing”

is this something you actually tried?

Qwen will have an aneurysm if you ask that exact question. Don’t know about others as I don’t have access to them at work

Re: The state of open source AI

#300

Speculation: open models is what will kill Anthropic and OpenAI. Hyperscalers can run the models without a licensing fee. Apple can make them smaller and put them on the device. The frontier models are an edge and a liability. They're astronomically expensive to train. Without them, their models will fade into obscurity. Their marketing depends on people believing the models are meaningfully different, as people have…

There’s not much of a difference because open models are distilling from frontier models. If frontier models cease to exist then many of these open models will as well
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