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Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

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Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#221

Post by techpression »

LoganDark wrote: post #207
fn-mote wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ed: I disagree. My recollection is that machine learning was routinely sold as “AI” even when it obviously wasn’t. (IBM’s Watson was good at Jeopardy but not real medical applications.) This isn’t exactly the same, but nothing in the book Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence would be considered AI today.

You must be thinking of a different machine learning. All the on-device machine learning, backend machine learning, OCR, etc. was all called "machine learning" before LLMs. Yes, the field of artificial intelligence still existed, often used machine learning, and called the result "AI". But Apple would call keyboard prediction machine learning. Microsoft would call OCR machine learning. YouTube called machine transcri…

Thank you. I was starting to think the history revision was almost true, but your recollection is very much in sync with my own. Everything was machine learning, nobody talked about AI unless it was for research, now marketing has changed that, unfortunately.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#222

Post by lesuorac »

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #144
willmadden wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

isn’t that how we got here though? Everyone in silicon valley was so busy making sure they were open minded, steelmanning, and not treating politics like a sport that no one in the silicon valley halls of power pointed out that the emperor has no clothes and now we have a (sorry woke police) shrieking retard president leading us through the singularity.

No?

Maybe you were busy being open minded and etc.

But uh rest of Silicon Valley was pretty openly rooting for Trump to win 2024.

The emperor having no clothes is actually really useful when you can interact with the emperor. You want them then to be mallable like Tim Cook giving Trump a golden statue so they're immune to tariffs that their competitors have to pay.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#223

Post by lotsofpulp »

jimbob45 wrote: post #146
forgetfreeman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'ma keep it creamy with you, both parties have had the kind of political majority required to clamp down on the corporatization of our society, and neither have so much as paid lip service to doing so. You want to be mad at the current administration by all means there's fertile ground, but don't waste anyone's time blaming them for a situation that's been decades in the making with both major political parties push…

The last time was 2009-2010 for the Democrats. The Republicans have never held 60 seats. But the real crime is that the left never exploited that. If I was in charge, I’d have mountains of draft legislation vetted, proofread, run by every lawmaker, and printed out years before any potential majority just in case it ever came about. Whoever was in charge of the DNC in 2009 should feel ashamed of letting a generational…

Crack open some Wikipedia and learn about how there were at least 2-3 independents as part of the 60 votes, who often did not vote with Democrats. See the myriad compromises that had to be made for healthcare reform to pass so that the ACA could become reality, including nixing the “public” option due to some of those aforementioned independents.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#224

Post by lesuorac »

jimbob45 wrote: post #146
forgetfreeman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'ma keep it creamy with you, both parties have had the kind of political majority required to clamp down on the corporatization of our society, and neither have so much as paid lip service to doing so. You want to be mad at the current administration by all means there's fertile ground, but don't waste anyone's time blaming them for a situation that's been decades in the making with both major political parties push…

The last time was 2009-2010 for the Democrats. The Republicans have never held 60 seats. But the real crime is that the left never exploited that. If I was in charge, I’d have mountains of draft legislation vetted, proofread, run by every lawmaker, and printed out years before any potential majority just in case it ever came about. Whoever was in charge of the DNC in 2009 should feel ashamed of letting a generational…

The 60 seats business needs to stop.

Fillibuster is a senate procedure rule. That's about the weakest a thing could be. At any point Democrats could have gotten rid of the filibuster with a 51 majority.

Democrats would much rather let congress do nothing than do something. It's hurt their reputation so much.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#225

Post by doodlebugging »

ori_b wrote: post #182
doodlebugging wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all of that in mind I have to wonder whether there is overlap between these response groups and if so, how much. Could be zero to 100% without more information.

Good question. How many people that you know are in all three groups?

>About 14% of Americans think AI is moving us towards a better world. About 17% are creationists. About 26% believe in Telekinesis.

0 people that I know are in all three. Pretty confident about that.

For the any two of three cases where [A] includes creationists and those favorable to AI; [B] includes creationists and those who believe in telekinesis; [C] includes those favorable to AI and who believe in telekinesis.

[A] 0 ; [B] 0 ; [C] 0

Considering people that I know who could be part of one of the three groups now is an interesting question. I am pretty sure that two relatives are creationists based on interactions over the years. I haven't ever heard anyone I know talking about telekinesis so I probably have to say that this could be a non-zero number. If it is a non-zero number then [B] could end up being non-zero. AI is universally hated or even feared by those that I know who are being forced to use it or whose employer is adopting AI tools in their workplace.

So based on my own recollections I have to say that there are only 2 people that I know who belong to one of the three groups you identified. Interestingly enough, the children of those two creationists are not religious as adults. I think they had all they could stand growing up in that environment and as soon as they went to college they 'rebelled', leaving the parents disappointed that the kids didn't want to tote all that baggage in their own lives.

Sample size is small though since I don't know many people.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#226

Post by AdieuToLogic »

granzymes wrote: post #205
LoganDark wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's machine learning, which has overlap with AI but is not completely equivalent.

The “overlap” is that all machine learning is AI, but not all AI is machine learning.

> The “overlap” is that all machine learning is AI ...

"All machine learning" is not AI, as k-means clustering and linear regression, amongst others, are very much ML without qualifying as AI algorithms.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#227

Post by johnnyanmac »

willmadden wrote: post #143
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Increasingly true in Trump’s America. It’s somewhat the point of democracy to maintain a limit on rent seekers’ and wealth extractors’ power on the political process. It should come as no surprise that the individuals who have grifted and extorted their way into power are also fiercely antidemocratic. The xenophobes and bigots that have hitched their wagons are equally deplorable.

[flagged]

>you've completely missed that the teams' owners have the same plans and go to dinner parties together.

The "both sides are the same" argument was tiring in 2024, disingenuous in 2025, and outright tonedeaf in 2026. We have hundreds of examples now of how no: this is not normal behavior. Just because some billionaires are exploiting the behavior doesn't mean the actions, means, nor ends are the same.

Likewise, trying to dismiss speech you do not like over certain words or people being involved says a lot more about your ability to live up to your own words.If the first sentence wasn't there I'd bet that you'd be apathetic to it at best, but the moment a certain word is there its suddenly "shallow,uninformed bickering" despite it being on topic for an article specifically about a company practicing rent-seeking by pushing for nurses to provide worse service.

Just because there are clowns in the White House doesn't mean we still can't be adults. Sometimes being an adult means acknowledging the elephant in the room.

>This thread is a perfect example of why HN has a "no politics" guideline.

It does not. It has a discouragement from posting small updates as you'd see on 24/7 news. Be it politics, sports, pop culture, or crime. This story is about technology being used for surveillance and shaping employee behavior around it. If you want to pretend this isn't political and suddenly not an interesting new phenomenon... well, you do you. People will discuss what they find interesting, though.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#228

Post by rockskon »

jmye wrote: post #125
fhub wrote: post #104

There is an unfortunate cycle that has been playing out this year in USA. Insurance companies are arming up with AI to deny billing codes charged by providers. Providers are arming up with AI to listen in on provider-patient sessions to prove the billing codes are legit (And teach providers to use keywords in session). The loser, as always, is the patient's quality of care.

> Providers are arming up with AI to listen in on provider-patient sessions to prove the billing codes are legit This is not a decrease in quality of care - this is your provider having actual evidence of the care needs they discussed with you when they close their note, hours or days after seeing you.

Except AI has an unacceptably high rate of hallucinations that will result in adverse health outcomes if not outright death.

Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse

#230

Post by noisy_boy »

akudha wrote: post #161
neaden wrote: post #3

If you think using a machine to evaluate how well a human is showing empathy is a good idea, you probably shouldn't have any position of power.

If a human’s performance for 40 plus hours a week can be reduced to a performance score , that too in a field like healthcare, that alone feels weird. Sure there needs to be some way to reward people/evaluate their work etc, but I dunno if management by metrics is the best way, especially when those numbers are calculated by an algorithm. Where has all the empathy gone? And common sense? :(

> Where has all the empathy gone? And common sense? :(

Contrary to popular belief, I don't think common sense has gone away. It just has been deprioritized at the altar of profit. It'll be visible loud and clear the very instant if/when the lives of the assholes chasing profits was on the line.

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