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A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

sam.sutch.net

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Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#31

Post by andrekandre »

adamtaylor_13 wrote: post #26

Why do some software engineers love AI and some hate it? I've got senior engineers (20+ yoe) who have never been having more fun and then some who feel like OP here. Why is it so decisive? There's no other tool (not even emacs) that's caused this sort of division.

  > Why do some software engineers love AI and some hate it?
n=1 but i'd say 3 aspects for me:

1. its forced on me at $job; its just a tool so let me use it when i need it and stop making my work-life miserable with childish tokenmaxing leaderboards

2. co-workers who send low-effort low-quality pr's that introduce tons of complexity and waste everyone's time and that they cant answer basic questions about because they no longer know how it works

3. the absolute cult-like manic behavior with some people around "ai"... yes its fun and interesting and cool tech so please stop treating it like a religion ffs

just my 3c

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#32

Post by agentultra »

avaer wrote: post #15

For a hundred years software was inscrutable enough to normies that you could be an artisan. But most professions haven't had that luxury for a long, long time. Try making and selling pretty much anything else you built by hand. Now it's software people's turn to feel the pain of being a starving artist and watch as your attractive friends with no skills and a social media presence "make it" with their genius. We hav…

There are cabinet makers who still make pieces by hand with hand tools. They charge whatever they want and do well. Not everything is Ikea.

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#33

Post by spicyusername »

agentultra wrote: post #32
avaer wrote: post #15

For a hundred years software was inscrutable enough to normies that you could be an artisan. But most professions haven't had that luxury for a long, long time. Try making and selling pretty much anything else you built by hand. Now it's software people's turn to feel the pain of being a starving artist and watch as your attractive friends with no skills and a social media presence "make it" with their genius. We hav…

There are cabinet makers who still make pieces by hand with hand tools. They charge whatever they want and do well. Not everything is Ikea.

And yet nearly all cabinets are not made by hand...

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#34

Post by fusslo »

My org has restructured to gear up for reducing engineers' necessary skills

They've changed our job titles from 'Engineer' to 'Developer'.

Power (in the form of talking to business owners, organizing work, setting engineering direction) has been centralized. We had 6 engineering managers now we have one 'Director'.

I don't think I've solved a real problem in 8 months.

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#35

Post by georgehotz »

How much of modern software was slop before AI? Is this really something new? I argue it's been happening in many companies since at least 2010. Made with good old fashioned humans and some help from ZIRP. Remember that time I worked at Twitter?

SQLite is the most popular database in the world. It's maintained by 3 people. There's hope. AI is a great tool that's here to help you if you want, but at the end of the day, the output matters and it's quality not quantity. Don't work for people who don't agree.

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#36

Post by deadbabe »

simondotau wrote: post #23
shric wrote: post #9

30 years in the industry for me. It’s been a wild last few years watching this transformation. Like the OP I find it wholly unpleasant and I also can’t deny the productivity boost. I’m very glad I’m nearly ready for retirement and I look forward to watching this “progress” from a comfortable distance.

In all sincerity, what do you mean by wholly unpleasant? 25 years in my case, by the way, and I have found this to be the most liberating and creativity-boosting period of my career. And it’s not even close. I’ve written code in more languages in the past few years than in any other period. I’m finishing more projects than ever before. I’m learning faster than ever before. I’m enjoying programming more than ever befo…

AI as helper is basically a better google search, which is not much different than what we did before AI (copy paste from stack overflow)

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#37

Post by deadbabe »

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #22
avaer wrote: post #15

For a hundred years software was inscrutable enough to normies that you could be an artisan. But most professions haven't had that luxury for a long, long time. Try making and selling pretty much anything else you built by hand. Now it's software people's turn to feel the pain of being a starving artist and watch as your attractive friends with no skills and a social media presence "make it" with their genius. We hav…

What doomerism. I really don't see it. Slop has always been cheap. Now it's even cheaper. But software that actually fucking works AND does what you want is still expensive as hell.

No it isn’t. If you don’t care about stuff like security or user friendliness you can do most of what you want through simple shell scripts probably.

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#38

Post by spicyusername »

In another decade I expect the processes and procedures will catch up.

We're at that awkward time where there is still an expectation to fill out JIRA tickets, but it is possible to ship multiple features at once in less time than the planning meeting takes.

As the models improve, the slop will reduce. As the humans improve, the processes and procedures will change to match the new paradigm, whatever it becomes.

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#39

Post by stiglitz »

agentultra wrote: post #32
avaer wrote: post #15

For a hundred years software was inscrutable enough to normies that you could be an artisan. But most professions haven't had that luxury for a long, long time. Try making and selling pretty much anything else you built by hand. Now it's software people's turn to feel the pain of being a starving artist and watch as your attractive friends with no skills and a social media presence "make it" with their genius. We hav…

There are cabinet makers who still make pieces by hand with hand tools. They charge whatever they want and do well. Not everything is Ikea.

Kudos to the lucky few artisans that the modern economy will support, but becoming a stocker at Ikea will probably be more lucrative than picking up a saw and plane.

Re: A grumpy screed about AI in software engineering

#40

Post by dd8601fn »

agentultra wrote: post #32
avaer wrote: post #15

For a hundred years software was inscrutable enough to normies that you could be an artisan. But most professions haven't had that luxury for a long, long time. Try making and selling pretty much anything else you built by hand. Now it's software people's turn to feel the pain of being a starving artist and watch as your attractive friends with no skills and a social media presence "make it" with their genius. We hav…

There are cabinet makers who still make pieces by hand with hand tools. They charge whatever they want and do well. Not everything is Ikea.

Must be nice for all six of them.
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