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Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

thinkingmachines.ai

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Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#311

Post by [deleted] »

swiftcoder wrote: post #249
throwaw12 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean, if it is American? Is it censored or will it eventually stop working in Middle Eastern countries? Or is it biased towards powerful political lobby group interests? When weights are open I usually don't care where is it from, as long as it is working for my use cases well

There's a lot of Sinophobia in the tech world, and the AI race seems to be magnifying that. With very little evidence to back it up, I might add - we've had regular releases of quality open-weight models from Chinese firms, and no sign they are more censored/ideological, than, say, Grok

[deleted]

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#312

Post by Saline9515 »

swiftcoder wrote: post #249
throwaw12 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean, if it is American? Is it censored or will it eventually stop working in Middle Eastern countries? Or is it biased towards powerful political lobby group interests? When weights are open I usually don't care where is it from, as long as it is working for my use cases well

There's a lot of Sinophobia in the tech world, and the AI race seems to be magnifying that. With very little evidence to back it up, I might add - we've had regular releases of quality open-weight models from Chinese firms, and no sign they are more censored/ideological, than, say, Grok

The Chinese are quite open about their efforts regarding intellectual espionage and the desire for control of other countries' supply chains. It's not sinophobia to be cautious about it. It doesn't mean that the US companies are angels either.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#313

Post by suprjami »

blovescoffee wrote: post #141
suprjami wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DS3 isn't even looked at anymore. GLM-5.2 is the best in that class right now. It is competitive with current GPT/Claude/Gemini.

"Current GPT/Claude/Gemini" is not a meaningful statement about perf. There's many different models from each of those providers and there's a considerable gap between the best of anthropic and open ai compared to gemini. Benchmarks have GLM 5.2 somewhere underneath Sol and Fable and closer to now last-gen openai and anthropic models.

My previous comment from 24 hours ago is now irrelevant.

Newly released Kimi K3 is benching better than Claude Opus 4.8. The only better models are Claude Fable and GPT 5.6 Sol Max Effort.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#314

Post by suprjami »

spwa4 wrote: post #256
blovescoffee wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Current GPT/Claude/Gemini" is not a meaningful statement about perf. There's many different models from each of those providers and there's a considerable gap between the best of anthropic and open ai compared to gemini. Benchmarks have GLM 5.2 somewhere underneath Sol and Fable and closer to now last-gen openai and anthropic models.

One error: GLM 5.2 beats the best public Gemini model, 3.5 pro. There's 2 caveats with the rest. First, GLM 5.2 matches those models in "xhigh" effort modes, which has a very low quota on the subscriptions, especially for Claude. Second, last-gen GPT/Claude means what they release in April/May of 2026. Or to be even more complete/fair: GLM 5.2 beats what OpenAI released in March 2026 (GPT 5.5 xxhigh), and what Anthro…

The gap has been steadily closing over time.

Opus 4.8 (May) to Kimi K3 (July) has apparently just dropped it to two months.

China also does efficiency improvements. Qwen 3.6 27B is better than Sonnet 4.5 and you can run it on a couple of gaming video cards. That's incredible. I can do real actual work with this!

As Google said in 2023, none of them have a moat, open weight models will win.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#315

Post by drob518 »

fmajid wrote: post #270
drob518 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cf Microsoft v Intel circa 1995

Usually software wins over hardware, but the voracious appetite of LLMs has inverted the usual balance of power.

That and the actual algorithms that power AI are well known and there doesn’t seem to be any secret sauce at that level.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#316

Post by andriy_koval »

alightsoul wrote: post #226
andriy_koval wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The same business model that Deepseek is using. there is a chance their business model is absorbing government funding..

You don't have to assume that. They just IPO'd

If they get subsudized say hardware, it won't be captured in filings.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#317

Post by xnx »

ls_stats wrote: post #2

America needs its own DeepSeek or Z.ai, a lot of people (myself included) root for open chinese models to win because they have no other choice. Thinking Machines might be it.

> root for open chinese models to win

What does "winning" mean to you?

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#318

Post by hdemirev »

nikcub wrote: post #220

This is a winner IMO. Lots of cost pressure on token spend atm within enterprises and tasks that don't require Opus / Codex class models. These companies have hopefully captured all of their traces and now have enough to fine-tune an open model and host themselves. Inkling feels like the right base - not obsessed with benchmaxxing on coding but rather being adaptable to the task required For tasks like GTM, support,…

Open weight models as a category might be a winner due to cost pressure, but I don't think Inkling is a top performer in that respect. Pricing on a token basis is 6-9x higher depending on the provider.

Can chime in on the support use case specifically: GPT OSS performs really well here and has been somewhat of a benchmark with our customers, limited testing [0] against Inkling reveals basically identical performance, but with a significant cost increase at scale.

I'd say that for real-world tasks that aren't coding most companies don't see value by being on the latest and greatest model.

[0] https://valiopt.com/blog/inkling-model-customer-support-revi...

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#319

Post by subscribed »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #47
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MiniMax M3 and DeepSeek v4-Pro are highly capable long context open weight multi-modal models. But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

> But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context. I'm not sure exactly what causes the difference, but this heavily depends on the model. In my experience with Opus 4.8, I can go well over 500k and still get extremely good results. A drastically different example was GLM-5.1, which worked great until about 100k and then turned insane almost immediately. They did fix t…

I'm an amateur so it influences my setup a lot, but Opus 4.8 above 250k context in my experience with planning and implementing its own plans gets much dumber than fresh Sonnet 5, to the point of forgetting / ignoring things in the last prompt, forgetting half of the convention for the (very small and simple) codebase, etc.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#320

Post by subscribed »

ianbutler wrote: post #70
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MiniMax M3 and DeepSeek v4-Pro are highly capable long context open weight multi-modal models. But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

> But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context. I often see this repeated, and it is not true task to task. I work on this daily and we have several tasks where long context is advantageous and our evals against a whole battery of models with different windows show it as being so. This is why having good evals for the tasks you're working on is so important. I do gr…

That might be me getting paranoid but I actually see it above 200k (with Opus 4.8), but more often and MUCH more pronounced in the afternoon UK time.
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