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Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

ft.com

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Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#111

Post by user43928 »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #70
jstummbillig wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "this far"? How far is this? Corps lose law suits all the time. They always have to go whatever "this far" is before it happens, surely?

The accusations are incredibly clear/defined (and serious!) and have a very simple burden of proof. These things either happened or they didn’t, and they have material evidence or they don’t. It’s incredibly unlikely that they filed such big, concrete accusations without concrete proof to back them up. And while I am far from an Apple fan boy, yes a lot of big corporations file frivolous lawsuits but Apple typically…

I do not know a lot about Apple's litigation against other companies, but Apple did file numerous largely unsuccessful challenges to the EU's DMA.

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#112

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Zigurd wrote: post #100

Everybody wants a platform but nobody wants to spend what it takes to make a platform. That includes things like Windows Phone, Fire Phone, all the glasses, Humane, etc. As much as everybody hates on OpenAI for chaotic management, they did buy Jony Ive and are presumably giving him everything he wants to build a platform for them. Even though it probably only buys them a 20% chance of success, they haven't doomed the…

> And they blew it

This could be a blessing in disguise for OpenAI. This mess was conducted under Altman’s watch—it could be an opportunity to Kalanick him.

The Board could elevate Altman to Chairman emeritus or something, choose a new CEO and settle with Apple. That will probably involve shutting down the hardware project and clawing back comp from its employees who helped make this mess.

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#113

Post by bradyd »

EPWN3D wrote: post #43
nba456_ wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you have worked at Apple during the entire Samsung lawsuit and say Apple has no history of suing competitors over IP theft?

Because Apple didn't sue Samsung over IP theft. They sued them over copyright infringement.

It was actually patent infringement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electron....

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#114

Post by jader201 »

jasonlotito wrote: post #104
s3p wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How far is this? If I am understanding your question, they went so far as to sue their employees.

You are getting downvoted because, I guess, people didn't read who the defendents who are getting sued, and that it literally starts with sueing two employees: CHANG LIU, TANG YEW TAN, OPENAI FOUNDATION f/k/a OPENAI, INC., OPENAI GROUP PBC, and IO PRODUCTS, LLC f/k/a IO PRODUCTS, INC.,

There are two individuals being sued, but many more received letters.

Parent is being downvoted likely because their statement implies the “dozens” receiving letters are individually being sued, but that’s not the case.

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#115

Post by JumpCrisscross »

staticman2 wrote: post #52
smith7018 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Apple settle? They probably want the same outcomes of the Waymo v Uber trial that forced Uber out of the market. Apple's accusations imply that every part of OpenAI's hardware effort has been tainted with Apple's trade secrets and is therefore illegitimate. They also have more money than God so they can keep the suit going as long as they want.

Uber was not forced to leave the self driving car market by Waymo's litigation. The litigation ended in February 2018 and Uber left the market in December 2020.

I think it’s fair to argue that Uber’s self-driving efforts never recovered after that trial.

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#116

Post by aprilthird2021 »

Zigurd wrote: post #100

Everybody wants a platform but nobody wants to spend what it takes to make a platform. That includes things like Windows Phone, Fire Phone, all the glasses, Humane, etc. As much as everybody hates on OpenAI for chaotic management, they did buy Jony Ive and are presumably giving him everything he wants to build a platform for them. Even though it probably only buys them a 20% chance of success, they haven't doomed the…

Your comment assumes they have stolen some propietary info or trade secrets but it hasn't been determined yet that they have, no?

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#117

Post by JumpCrisscross »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #7

How can I say this…? Some companies come across like a neon sign flashing "EVIL!". It's been nothing but warning signs from this company for at least a year now. I'm so happy to have nothing to do with them (having deleted my account a year or so ago). Their marketing dept is going to have to really dig to get them out of this hole they've made for themselves. The idea that I would trust any device they might roll ou…

> don't mind the downvotes—it means I touched a nerve

Nope. You wrote an ambiguous blurb that then breaks guidelines by commenting “about the voting on comments” [1].

Try taking out the edit and change “this company” in the second paragraph to OpenAI.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#118

Post by deaton »

jstummbillig wrote: post #24
reenorap wrote: post #10

Apple must have hard evidence on this. I can’t believe they would take it this far without already knowing they are going to win. If they have to fire a huge chunk of their hardware employees it’s going to throw their IPO plans into chaos.

What do you mean "this far"? How far is this? Corps lose law suits all the time. They always have to go whatever "this far" is before it happens, surely?

Apple lawyers have a reputation for doing their homework

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#119

Post by bellowsgulch »

Zigurd wrote: post #100

Everybody wants a platform but nobody wants to spend what it takes to make a platform. That includes things like Windows Phone, Fire Phone, all the glasses, Humane, etc. As much as everybody hates on OpenAI for chaotic management, they did buy Jony Ive and are presumably giving him everything he wants to build a platform for them. Even though it probably only buys them a 20% chance of success, they haven't doomed the…

Yes, but how do we know specific manufacturing processes weren’t in employee contracts like, “If you leave Apple you can’t utilize the invisible weld process invented here for the iMac.”

I mean regardless of whether it’s a trade secret, you’re going to know how to do specific things that can’t be protected against copying.

There are no practical laws against understanding the laws of physics, chemistry, and metallurgy when it comes to anodizing.

Re: Apple targets dozens of OpenAI employees with legal letters

#120

Post by aprilthird2021 »

martinky24 wrote: post #80
reenorap wrote: post #10

Apple must have hard evidence on this. I can’t believe they would take it this far without already knowing they are going to win. If they have to fire a huge chunk of their hardware employees it’s going to throw their IPO plans into chaos.

They literally do have hard evidence. They have records of an employee (Chang Liu) who left for OpenAI copying dozens and dozens of files off of their server after he left.

That's not enough though. He could have been acting rogue or for some other reason. That alone won't win in court
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