EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams • Hacker News Board

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#121

Post by margalabargala » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 2:28 PM UTC

inigyou wrote: post #105

imzadi wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed something similar. I can listen to audiobooks and follow/absorb what is going on without really paying attention, as long as I am not trying to read something. I can't follow an audiobook and read at the same time. This is probably because I subvocalize when I read. I have taken speed reading courses but I don't enjoy reading that way. I like feeling every word as I read.

I read by imagining a voice saying the words. Is that not how everyone reads?

It is not.

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#122

Post by dfgsdfgfgd » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 2:33 PM UTC

shortercode wrote: post #92

NalNezumi wrote: post #70

Related, but this reminds me of the story by Richard Feynman [1] when he practices counting up to 60 seconds in his head, and after many experiments around what he can do simultaneously conclude that he can simultaneously count and read but not speak. Later sharing this to John Tukey, he's told that Tukey can't read while counting but could speak while counting. Turns out Tukey is visualizing looking at a tape, while…

Interesting, I experimented a bit with this when my daughter was younger. I used to walk around the room with her in my arms singing to get her to sleep. To ensure she would be settled I would then count 300 steps before putting her in the cot. I discovered I could count and sing at the same time by visualising the number in my head, instead of using my inner monologue. But it requires more focus to maintain. Thankfu…

It reminds a bit of musicians tracking rhythm. You can somehow feel a beat after a bit practice even when not directly paying attention to it and it's not too hard to associate it with an increasing counter (somehow). It sounds hard, but it is quite doable.

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#123

Post by dfgsdfgfgd » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 2:35 PM UTC

inigyou wrote: post #105

imzadi wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed something similar. I can listen to audiobooks and follow/absorb what is going on without really paying attention, as long as I am not trying to read something. I can't follow an audiobook and read at the same time. This is probably because I subvocalize when I read. I have taken speed reading courses but I don't enjoy reading that way. I like feeling every word as I read.

I read by imagining a voice saying the words. Is that not how everyone reads?

Not at all. I can do it, but I have to actively produce it. Don't see much use for it except when reading quality fiction. It's dog slow IME. You are a fast reader?

You might wonder how I read and it's a bit like how you can watch an intersection and know what to do without verbalizing "there is a bike", "there is a car". You just get the situation and understand it. Sentences are like that as well.

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#124

Post by eszed » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 2:37 PM UTC

imzadi wrote: post #99

NalNezumi wrote: post #70

Related, but this reminds me of the story by Richard Feynman [1] when he practices counting up to 60 seconds in his head, and after many experiments around what he can do simultaneously conclude that he can simultaneously count and read but not speak. Later sharing this to John Tukey, he's told that Tukey can't read while counting but could speak while counting. Turns out Tukey is visualizing looking at a tape, while…

I've noticed something similar. I can listen to audiobooks and follow/absorb what is going on without really paying attention, as long as I am not trying to read something. I can't follow an audiobook and read at the same time. This is probably because I subvocalize when I read. I have taken speed reading courses but I don't enjoy reading that way. I like feeling every word as I read.

> I like feeling every word as I read.

I know what you mean. I don't typically sub-vocalize, but when I run across a particularly beautiful bit of prose I slow down in order to hear it in my head. If I'm on my own I might read it aloud.

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#125

Post by dfgsdfgfgd » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 2:37 PM UTC

SwtCyber wrote: post #93

hoppp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can also count while reading, I just tried it. But I can't write while counting. I can have one interpretation and one generative task running at the same time.

It really does feel like reading and counting can occupy separate lanes, while writing and counting are both trying to use the same internal narrator

Well, FWIW, I can easily write and count. It's actually way easier than I thought and takes no effort. Perhaps due to automatic touch typing while talking and thinking about something else etc? I can actually type and think about something else, never really noticed that before.

Reading and counting is harder for me. I can do it, but it's tiring. Those feel like they share lanes to me.

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#126

Post by dfgsdfgfgd » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 2:39 PM UTC

a_gopher wrote: post #57

If reading aloud a children story, you may notice you are able to maintain an independent unrelated train of thought. While doing so, I notice that occasionally extra mistakes can "leak" into the story telling - e.g. you read a single word incorrectly, maybe substituting a word from your other train of thought.

Well, perhaps sadly, I maintain trains of thought unrelated to my environment all the time. It's because the default state of the world is so incredibly.. bland I really, really cannot take it without something going on.

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#127

Post by NopIdoN » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 2:42 PM UTC

alexpotato wrote: post #107

There is an interesting point about this from animation. Imagine you are seeing a pendulum clock and it makes a "tick" on one extreme and "tock" on the other. When they first started doing animation + sound they noticed that if you play the "tock" sound at the exact same time the pendulum hit the extreme, people would think it was delayed. Research showed that humans required a small amount of time to "context switch…

But the tick/tock on a real clock happens before the end of the swing anyway

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#128

Post by vegavis » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 2:57 PM UTC

NalNezumi wrote: post #70

Related, but this reminds me of the story by Richard Feynman [1] when he practices counting up to 60 seconds in his head, and after many experiments around what he can do simultaneously conclude that he can simultaneously count and read but not speak. Later sharing this to John Tukey, he's told that Tukey can't read while counting but could speak while counting. Turns out Tukey is visualizing looking at a tape, while…

This has everything to do with the fact we have two brains. The left and right brain (more specifically the left and right hemispheres of the Cerebral Cortex) hold different functions cognitively, control the motor movements of the opposite sides of the body, and communicate thru the Corpus Callosum. Your full consciousness, or thought, is almost like a 'stream' created at this meeting point of the two brains where the neural traffic is so dense (more like my own theory...). However, if you were to find a patient where this connection is severed, like an epileptic patient whos Corpus Callosum was surgically bisected to cure them of chronic seizures, you would then have someone with 2 separate brains that cant talk to one another. This is split brain theory. I wrote a paper on this in undergraduate and id have to pull up a ton of other details, but essentially go watch videos on Michael Gazzaniga and Dr. Roger Sperry's experiments with these people. They would experience the right brain reaching for one outfit to get dressed in the morning while the left brain "thought" the idea of another outfit, so they would be very confused. Its very revealing to the mapping of our brain and all the different human functions, and how we learn! Then you lead down the rabbit hole of Bicameral Mind... but anyways, i believe thats why everyone can count in their left brain, and then from there its up to each brain system to figure out how to map the second task to the right brain so they can enter the consciousness stream simultaneously. There is an internal mechanism everyone develops themselves and Feynman is showing you can test that. Its probably right around most humans cognitive limit to use the right brain to help either reading OR speaking as the left brain is the primary handler of all of these (math, reading, speech). I also think thats why Feynman saw colors with his math; his right brain was assigning a unique identifier (color) to his logical problem being worked out in his left brain (all the different symbols and letters). Fascinating.

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#129

Post by willy_k » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 3:15 PM UTC

aatd86 wrote: post #73

gala8y wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I meditated a lot, I was able to sit in a cafe and listen to 3 conversations without switching and be able to understand them and remember them all. It happened to me few times. Also, once, sleeping in a tent, a voice from a dream interfered with sound of raindrops and became distorted and I woke up scared only to quickly get what just happened.

Not sure why you are downvoted. Well it probably doesnt require meditation because split attention is somewhat common here. My mother can follow multiple discussions like have a phone conversation and understand what I tell her. In general I can't. So a bit harder for me. I can focus on work and follow some podcasts but not speak and at the same time listen to a full parallel convo. I do believe brain to brain commun…

I say this as someone recognizing myself: learn the real, detailed, mechanistic, intelligible science. The world does not work like sci-fi, despite how many people make claims that amount to as much (with 0 actual evident evidence). That is not to say that all there is is what’s readily apparent. But when you forgo that assumption, you have to be careful because it easily slips into ur own understanding of what “there is” becoming overly skewed towards things that are not apparent (read: the brain feeding into its own maladaptive patterns of connection, making up things and then falling into confirmation bias). Physical reality is the base, at least when regarding things practically.

Re: EEG shows brain can simultaneous encode two speech streams

#130

Post by tzs » Fri, Jul 17, 2026, 3:21 PM UTC

sigmoid10 wrote: post #78

junon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes of course, the transmitted audio would be mono. I meant one radio in one ear and another radio in the other ear, or if you mix them and they both play in both ears. But it sounds like they're mixed (talking over each other in a single audio stream).

Yes. I have never seen any system (planes or elsewhere) that splits multiple voice communication inputs so you hear different streams in different ears. How would that be different (let alone better) than having both streams in both ears? It's not like your brain can process each ear separately.

There are generally 4 ways you can deal with presenting two independent mono sources to one person using headphones:

1. Mix them together into one mono channel and send that to both ears.

2. One in each ear.

3. Make separate mixes for each ear. For each ear's mix make one of the sources louder than the other, picking a different source to make louder for each ear.

4. Like #3, but also add delay in each ear's mix to the source that is weaker in that ear.

#2 is generally better than #1. Personally I'd find it annoying because it is very unnatural, but it makes it a lot easier for the brain to separate the sources, makes it easier to focus on one and ignore the other if you need to do that, and prevents the auditory masking you can get when two sources are in same place in your perceived audio space.

#3 fixes the masking problem with #1 but #2 still because it is still easier to focus when you need to. Also, in each ear the weaker signal is unnatural and the brain expends some effort to filter it out, which is fatiguing over long periods.

#4 is by far the best. It solves the long term fatigue problem from #3 because our auditory system is built to expect a weaker version of anything one ear hears first to arrive shortly later at the other ear, and automatically filters it out instead of having to do it at a higher level. The delay shifts the perceived source of each voice to somewhere outside the head instead of somewhere inside, which is more natural, which is much less fatiguing than the "one voice" per ear approach (the brain almost always does more work when something seems unnatural).

Many military planes use #4, as do some Airbus models.