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Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

#41

Post by Planktonne »

I think it's entirely separate to the idea of LLMs as potentially thinking machines; I don't believe they are, but I do believe you should be polite to them.

Frankly, I think it's suggestive of a deficiency in people if they can't engage with non-human things as though they were human. Someone who wouldn't talk to a Roomba, for example, never chats to their laptop when it beeps, doesn't wave sliding doors open, doesn't act human except when it really benefits them--that's weird.

It's similar to the Voight-Kampff test [1], I think; how you act all the time, the emotional responses you build to things you interact with, all of this is part of being human. There's something wrong with people who don't see something wrong with bullying a robot [2], even if it can't feel pain, and most people can sense that. Our ability to form connections even with things that can't form connections with us is important [3].

An LLM isn't alive, but it pretends to be. You should have an emotional response to that, even if it's horror. The dead-eyed 'I minimise tokens' says nothing good about the speaker. Empathy should be your default, not a performance.

[1] https://bladerunner.fandom.com/wiki/Voight-Kampff_test [2] https://interestingengineering.com/culture/humanoid-robot-mi... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAwSVOlOgH8

Re: Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

#42

Post by Chu4eeno »

Planktonne wrote: post #41

I think it's entirely separate to the idea of LLMs as potentially thinking machines; I don't believe they are, but I do believe you should be polite to them. Frankly, I think it's suggestive of a deficiency in people if they can't engage with non-human things as though they were human. Someone who wouldn't talk to a Roomba, for example, never chats to their laptop when it beeps, doesn't wave sliding doors open, doesn…

People used to anthropomorphize pet rocks, so people either refusing to be nice to LLMs or getting upset when people anthropomorphize them says more about those critics than anything else IMHO.

Humans are social and the ELIZA effect is perfectly normal and expected imho.

Re: Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

#45

Post by yonatan8070 »

Planktonne wrote: post #41

I think it's entirely separate to the idea of LLMs as potentially thinking machines; I don't believe they are, but I do believe you should be polite to them. Frankly, I think it's suggestive of a deficiency in people if they can't engage with non-human things as though they were human. Someone who wouldn't talk to a Roomba, for example, never chats to their laptop when it beeps, doesn't wave sliding doors open, doesn…

I don't usually treat LLMs like humans, when I have a more complex question I do take care to use full sentences. Though sometimes I just need something quick so I'd throw ChatGPT a "python print flush= what does"

I do talk to my devices occaiosnally though. Things like "You're coming with me" to my laptop before picking it up and putting it in my backpack

Re: Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

#46

Post by dwd »

Actually quite a lot in the last week, as it seems to frame the responses better.

I complimented ChatGPT yesterday for saying "I don't know".

It thanked me for observing that, before explaining in depth why that was the most appropriate response.

Does it actually appreciate it, absolutely not. It's not capable of that.

It has no desire to continue our conversation.

No regret if it ends.

It wont continue processing what was said after I stop.

There is no "what is it to be".

Its "memory" and the ability to go back to something related from earlier on or from a separate chat is an interesting and useful ability, but it can't ascribe any meaning to them beyond statistical significance.

Re: Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

#47

Post by conorcleary »

mft_ wrote: post #37

Yes. If we reduce back to the “LLMs are next word prediction algorithms” and they have a huge training corpus including positive and negative human interactions, it’s not crazy to think they’ll be influenced by the flow of those learned interactions and respond subtly better to positive interactions than negative.

Hopefully they can figure out Please stfu & rtfm.

Re: Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

#48

Post by Planktonne »

yonatan8070 wrote: post #45
Planktonne wrote: post #41

I think it's entirely separate to the idea of LLMs as potentially thinking machines; I don't believe they are, but I do believe you should be polite to them. Frankly, I think it's suggestive of a deficiency in people if they can't engage with non-human things as though they were human. Someone who wouldn't talk to a Roomba, for example, never chats to their laptop when it beeps, doesn't wave sliding doors open, doesn…

I don't usually treat LLMs like humans, when I have a more complex question I do take care to use full sentences. Though sometimes I just need something quick so I'd throw ChatGPT a "python print flush= what does" I do talk to my devices occaiosnally though. Things like "You're coming with me" to my laptop before picking it up and putting it in my backpack

I don't think it has to be consistent, just to not do it at all is suspect behaviour.

Re: Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

#49

Post by [deleted] »

Planktonne wrote: post #41

I think it's entirely separate to the idea of LLMs as potentially thinking machines; I don't believe they are, but I do believe you should be polite to them. Frankly, I think it's suggestive of a deficiency in people if they can't engage with non-human things as though they were human. Someone who wouldn't talk to a Roomba, for example, never chats to their laptop when it beeps, doesn't wave sliding doors open, doesn…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Do you say please and thank you to your LLMs?

#50

Post by mikewarot »

I don't want to get into the habit of thinking of an entity in conversation as unworthy of consideration, and "beneath me", so, yes... I extend courtesy to the LLMs, just as I try to do here and everywhere else a computer mediates my communication.

As we learned in the 1980s[1], from Schoolhouse Rock:

  You should always say "thank you",
  Or at least say "please".
[1] https://www.schoolhouserock.tv/Conjunction.html
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