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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#881

Post by Schlagbohrer »

api wrote: post #415
lukebechtel wrote: post #386

> Chip Design > As an early proof of concept, Kimi K3 designed a chip to serve a nano model built on its own architecture. In a single 48-hour autonomous run, K3 built, optimized, and verified the chip using open-source EDA tools on the Nangate 45nm library. Within 4 mm², the chip closes timing at 100 MHz and sustains over 8,700 tokens/s decode throughput in simulation, packing 1.46M standard cells, 0.277 MB of SRAM,…

I had a thought a while back: sell large local models burned onto fused compute / ROM chips. Like cartridges for old game consoles. Slot (or probably plug into USB-C) and go. It’s an ASIC with the model wired into it so it’s very low power and fast. I’d buy these. Say $100 for a frontier class model. Maybe more.

This is a fun idea but they'll be outdated in 6 months and it would take 12 months to develop, build and ship them assuming they can design and manufacture these at superhuman speeds.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#883

Post by kilroy123 »

LarsDu88 wrote: post #494

A really good startup idea right now... Use kimi k3 to reproduce the kimi k3 asic design and start fabbing it immediately. In 12-18 months, start spinning up your own cloud and start competing with the frontier labs ASAP. Who needs superintelligence with you have 8,700 tokens/s at near Fable levels of performance??? This is like the Bill Gates, Paul Allen moment, but for hardware.

I've been convinced for a while this is the future. A super fast, good enough model, that runs locally and is private.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#884

Post by program_whiz »

binary132 wrote: post #879
Havoc wrote: post #875

US labs must be sweating bullets. Not on tech side, but on finance. They have a pile of debt and VC expectations that count on vast future profitability

I don’t think the timing of Trump’s recent sabre-rattling at China is any coincidence

Yep, time to pay back those campaign contributions in the form of "chinese models embargo". USG has already shown more than willing to dabble in picking what AI companies can do what.

Actually its interesting, I wonder if the recent freezes on Fable/Mythos and GPT 5.6 where actually prepping so that a "chinese model not allowed" play would be more pallatable / excusable. But then again, that's attributing 4d chess to an admin that has been making rookie mistakes.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#885

Post by yoda7marinated »

anigbrowl wrote: post #702

This might be the most impressive website generator demo I've seen: https://macos27.kimi.page Context from the person who prompted it: https://x.com/mweinbach/status/2077827886149439547

There is a full-on chess game in this page .. I wonder if it created a mini engine on its own or if it used one of the available open source solutions. Very impressive.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#886

Post by program_whiz »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #874
Painsawman123 wrote: post #870

This is the perfect opportunity for anyone who wants to boycott Anthopic and OpenAI!Anyone who cares about the future of Ai has no excuse to continue relying on companies that want to have a monopoly on intelligence.

I wonder if the clique around Peter Thiel still thinks "Competition is for losers!".

I think your response might be sarcasm, but actually this very situation demonstrates the truth of the adage.

In this case, competition and information-sharing is driving intelligence to become a commodity, with ever shrinking margins above compute+hardware. If this is the case, the incumbents can't recoup the many billions they have borrowed.

Cornering a market makes a winner, a winner who can charge large margins on a product you don't have an alternative to.

However, the point you might be thinking of is "competition is good for consumers" which is true. Thiel's sentiment was "competition makes companies into losers", as they become low-margin commodity factories, which is also true.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#888

Post by RA_Fisher »

simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

We need a new Pelican, bc earlier models were disadvantaged relative to later models. It's not a very useful comparison anymore.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#889

Post by Schlagbohrer »

pacman1337 wrote: post #271
modeless wrote: post #265

Anthropic's "durable advantage" theory of US AI dominance is looking pretty silly. There's zero indication that it will be hard for China to keep pace as models improve and start contributing to their own training. Which pretty much invalidates their policy recommendations. They can't even blame it on distillation this time, unless they want to claim that their own preferred security measures were ineffective in prev…

Likely won't improve much. They trained on every text already.

There is tremendous investment and work being done in creating new high quality data sets. Some of this is happening in-house at various firms, such as Meta making their employees use AI for their workflow to generate high quality training data.

Also, AI companies get huge amounts of human input when people use their cloud models, including thumbs-up or thumbs-down on millions of outputs. So the usage of these cloud models is itself producing new, high quality datasets.

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