Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

imdanielkendall.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 217 posts

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#181

Post by RealityVoid »

wildfireday2 wrote: post #177
RealityVoid wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don’t have anything like the verification and documentation processes that are mandated by DO-178 ISO 26262? Not sure how the enforcement looks, but automotive is pretty serious about ISO 26262. Still, the infotainment is most likely QM so it wouldn't apply in this specific situation.

ISO 26262 does have serious lifecycle standards but again it’s a voluntary industry standard that has no government oversight or regulatory authority. Oversight is typically largely internal and is strongest in the auto parts/components market. It’s largely toothless to automakers/integrators and again the likes of Tesla simply don’t use it and have no obligation to. The infotainment system itself may be QM but there…

> it’s a voluntary industry standard that has no government oversight or regulatory authority.

Yes, hence why I said I'm not sure about enforcement mechanisms how they stack up against the aviation standard. Still, in my limited experience, projects that are ASIL x take the thing pretty seriously and they do get certifications from external bodies. Actually, I am supporting an SEooC external certification right now.

> The infotainment system itself may be QM but there has to be assurance that it is in fact separated from higher safety level system.

The separation most likely happens _outside_ the infotainment itself, through a gateway.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#182

Post by cyberax »

BeetleB wrote: post #179
cyberax wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When Android Auto loads up, it shows me a tile with the current weather. In Fahrenheit. I want it in Celsius. Everywhere on my phone I've set it to Celsius. In the Settings (I think multiple ones). In the actual weather app. But AA will show it in Fahrenheit. I don't think I ever saw this behavior? > Why is there always a navigation app loaded? I think this is the default? I have OsmAnd+ instead of Google Maps by d…

> I think this is the default? I have OsmAnd+ instead of Google Maps by default. Ok. How do I make it not load any of them? > AndroidAuto can notify the car that it wants reduced noise How do I get it not to notify the car? > This is all fixable in software on Android. Nothing from your list is a problem on the _car_ side Which is why my original comment said Android Auto sucks. My complaint about the car manufacture…

> Ok. How do I make it not load any of them? > How do I get it not to notify the car?

Get the Android Auto app and patch away the notification. It's just an app, after all. Running on your own hardware.

> Which is why my original comment said Android Auto sucks. > My complaint about the car manufacturer is that they allow the driving experience to be degraded with it.

So your default car navigator can do everything in your list, including launching a non-default app from your phone? That's some mighty car navigation system.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#183

Post by red369 »

sublinear wrote: post #136
gmueckl wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably a complexity and cost thing: heating the wheel just requires heating wires in the wheel connected to a switch. Cooling requires a some cooling medium getting pumped into the wheel and back out into a heat exchanger or vented outside. You need pipes of some sort inside the wheel and wheel hub.

You're way overthinking this. Making the steering wheel an AC vent is a Mercedes Benz patent. It's just hollow on the inside. We also used to have crotch vents beneath the steering column! This was arguably the best idea since it could cool the entire driver area including the wheel. This is artificial scarcity like the McRib.

My 1994 Toyota Celica had a vent beneath the steering column. It didn't have airbags, ABS braking, cruise control, electric seats, a 5th gear - it was missing all kinds of features that more luxurious cars had then, and even basic cars have now. But it had that vent! It was such an amazing feature, and I can't believe that it's not in more cars, especially ones a lot more upmarket.

I'm always a little frustrated by all the little features that are scattered across car models, that would be so easy to add, but are only available in some cars. I suppose putting absolutely everything in would be expensive and overwhelming, but some of them seem pretty easy. Off the top of my head:

- The button to dim all the dials except the essential ones (in Subarus and Saabs)

- The little flap to block sun above the sun-visor (in Audis and probably others)

- Being able to turn the radio on again after the key has been taken out

- Being able to use the residual heat for a short time after the engine has been turned off (Usually in VW/Audi cars - becoming more common?)

- Being able to hold a button on the remote to shut or open all windows (for a coupe with frameless doors, this could make getting in and out of the car in a tight supermarket parking space massively easier)

- Fuel cap holders inside the fuel flap (have these become universal yet?)

Those all feel like they would cost very little extra to implement. There are a few more that I feel were complicated or expensive, but I still was surprised weren't universal - Having the remote/key recharge while driving (less useful now you rarely need to take the keys out of your pocket, but strangely missing from many luxury cars even when you did need to insert the key). - HUD

I don't feel this is a very good list, but most of the things I only remember when I see them. Most of the items above have gradually become more common. I remember noticing cheap but fantastic features more often with cars like old Peugeots and Volvos (and obviously Saabs), and also somewhat in 90s Japanese cars. Sure Mercedes and BMWs had nice features that other cars didn't, but it's the ones where they've thought of something really useful without it costing a lot that really felt impressive. And then disappointing when you never saw that feature again.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#185

Post by jcgl »

denkmoon wrote: post #107
lifeisgood99 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very simple to write out details but make them harder to access. Motivated users will find them.

To what end? Pleasing a few nerds? Nerds that are just as likely to have ripped out the OTA modem or not be using a car like that.

You mean a few customers? Yes, I think that’s perfectly reasonable to expect that changes made to a very expensive product are well-documented for those customers to whom that matters.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#186

Post by pbhjpbhj »

spaqin wrote: post #48
afavour wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No win scenario. We need to install updates because of security vulnerabilities. But we shouldn’t install updates because they might introduce bugs.

Security vulnerabilities get too much credit. It's "think of the children" of the software world. Most updates don't fix any, most vulnerabilities won't get used in the real world against you either, and in many cases the security is for the corporation against the customer instead.

'Security and bug fixes' is what companies say when they want you to update. They might be correct. You see that on Google Play store a lot ... Really they should mandate availability of descriptive and accurate update notes. But then Google are one of the worst offenders, often their updates don't even include details at all. One has to go spelunking through comments and forums trying to find if the update actually fixes anything or if it's just to include a few more ads or tracking mechanics.

Hooray for OSS, F-Droid is way better ime.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#187

Post by pbhjpbhj »

maxdo wrote: post #27
JoshTriplett wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone in auto industry decided that plugging device, and dependency on core functionality of the car to 3rd party device, that might be lost, have battery died, used for something else, etc is a good way to save money and not do proper software. On the contrary, having cars stop trying to provide a bespoke more-proprietary outdated piece of software you have less control over, probably have surreptitious telemetr…

you settle with one failure story for another failure story. there are companies with amazing software experience, Rivian, Tesla, Nio, Lucid, even gm is start moving into that direction, and WV is buying software from rivian.

Meanwhile my car - Vauxhall Zafira Tourer - from 2018 has a broken Android Auto, they stopped offering the map updates for sat nav in, like, 2019 and that update system is locked. AFAICT you need an encrypted thumb drive.

It's my first car with built in satnav, so it was not something I thought to test. A working Android Auto would be great compared to 10+ years out of date maps.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#188

Post by xethos »

QuantumFunnel wrote: post #91
Telaneo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, DRM-ed cars. I should have seen that one coming, really.

Geohot should focus his attention on jailbreaking cars now

You're gonna love finding out who was behind the founding of Comma.AI, which adds self-driving to cars that shipped without it

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#189

Post by izacus »

Telaneo wrote: post #25
izacus wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, Teslas aren't an outlier - the OTAs break shit all the time and in many ways they're worse than cars not getting OTAs because of that :(

Yet they still manage to be better than the baseline, since that's located somewhere around the Mariana Trench.

I've been driving many cars lately and I strongly disagree.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#190

Post by ethbr1 »

denkmoon wrote: post #107
lifeisgood99 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very simple to write out details but make them harder to access. Motivated users will find them.

To what end? Pleasing a few nerds? Nerds that are just as likely to have ripped out the OTA modem or not be using a car like that.

To the end that they exist at all.

One of the biggest organizational anti-patterns of the modern SaaS world is the move away from release notes.

It's a question of whether a company has a competent enough change control process to be able to generate a list of changes for a given release.

If a tech product company can't meet the low bar of documenting its changes, then it probably shouldn't be trusted?

Release notes aren't for end users in the same way that the wiring diagram taped to the back of your appliances isn't for end users.

They're for experts to either directly use... or to communicate in simpler language to end users.

Post reply on HN