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The human-in-the-loop is tired

pydantic.dev

101–110 of 221 posts

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#101
post #64
post #24

Reminds me of "The Animal is Tired" (2021) ( https://www.robinhobb.com/blog/archives/2021-05 )

> The animal is aging. Not surprising; I knew it would happen eventually, but I didn't make any provisions to deal with that eventuality. Somehow the reality crept up on me. And now it must be dealt with, day after day. (only ~5 paragraphs left now so y’all might as well finish it :) ) Thanks, lots of hackers can use the reminder.

Such a good read. Makes you think. Thanks for sharing!

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#102
> I came to the formalisms of software engineering through painful experience rather than academic instruction. If anything, that made me take those principles more seriously once I understood them.

Not related to the article, but I've seen this thought before and I think its wrong.

This isn't what good academic instructions gets you. Instead, they provide a systematic approach to learning foundational/core formalisms which let you recognize other problems as being of the same kind.

An academic background should let the person reason from a place of pre-explored essential complexity, instead of first having to rediscover & deconstruct the accidental complexity.

Building scar tissue about why things are a certain way is practical experience for (non)academics alike.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The writing style, if not AI, is at least a bit tryhard. Turning to the substance of the article: why do people feel the need to run this fast? I have certainly experimented with letting coding agents run amok. The first few times you try it, it feels like a superpower. Then you start examining the icky choices they made in a codebase that is now a dense forest. Then you have to expend a bunch of effort beating it ba…

> why do people feel the need to run this fast Because if they don't they feel like they will be replaced by someone who will

This happens all the time, even before LLMs. And it happens even when there is no threat. A lot of the time the race to the bottom is driven by anxious people running from imaginary threats. Which is why its often useful to have a person in a group who tells people not to panic (this is often an older person).

But of course the AI guys are preying on this anxiety in order to dominate. They are all over HN, either personally or with their bots. Which is why HN is no longer a place that you could go to get mainly unbiased anecdotes and experience. That is still available but it is being drowned out by FUD because the average HN user is now the mark.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#104
> The temptation to delegate the review itself to an AI was enormous. But, as he put it: "at that point, what am I still doing here?".

Sadly, this is a question for his boss, not him. It’s not existential. It’s economical.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it all depends on your personal driver: personally I rather see a product I built in whatever way used by ever growing number of people because they find it useful. It means that the time I spent working on that helped other people solving a problem (hopefully). That’s why a was always keen on cutting some corners when and where necessary in order to think about the user first and the code beauty second. Of c…

I don't even want to put 'my' code or apps out into the wild anymore. I've built a a few things I think are useful and I'm using myself but I'm afraid it'll just get called slop or my only users will be bots. What's the point. So I don't get the joy out of sharing it nor the joy of the achievement. But I've widdled down what I thought was an endless backlog of features to nearly zero, I guess that's something.

Github's weekly Top Trending repos list is depressing. Slop on top of slop, many doing the exact same thing as each other with so much low-quality content it's challenging to read through and compare similar repos.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#107
We've started calling it "Human on the hook" instead of human in the loop in work.

It is more accurate, in terms of, it only matters when something goes wrong.

Edit:"On the hook" is a general expression that means if something goes wrong it lands on you as the responsibile party, generally in a negative way. As in, if it goes right, you don't get kudos, if it goes wrong, you're on the hook for it

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#108

> I came to the formalisms of software engineering through painful experience rather than academic instruction. If anything, that made me take those principles more seriously once I understood them. Not related to the article, but I've seen this thought before and I think its wrong. This isn't what good academic instructions gets you. Instead, they provide a systematic approach to learning foundational/core formalism…

I worked for years at a manfuacturing facility where the engineers were men who only had a high school education and slowly (from the 80s through to the late 2010s) had been promoted up to doing engineering, but, with ZERO academic or theoretical background.

It was a massive disadvantage for them. They could carefully recreate the exact same thing over and over for new products that were similar to the previous version, but it was ALL cargo culted so they were terrified of any change, because they had no idea why a PCB was built in a certain way or what it meant to alter some aspect of a circuit board. So they were extremely, extremely resistant to any sort of change whatsoever.

And I as a young hardware engineer would get laughed at for saying things like "Do we have any fine copper wire? I need to make my own inductor for this test" because they didn't understand that an inductor is just coiled wire. Our board designer didn't understand why vias would be placed in a ground pad to link it thermally with the ground plane on a different layer, and laughed at me when I said we needed to "move heat around". He put a single via in the center of a huge ground pad. I asked him to put a grid of vias, so he humored me while having zero idea what the vias were for, or that having many vias linking two thermal planes would transfer more heat than just a single lonely via in a big pad.

Shit like that.

So I agree with you, the theory learned in academia plus the pedagogy is hugely useful and lets someone skip over decades of blind struggle.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#109
post #4
post #2

While I appreciate and agree with the key points of the post, Claude's writing style fingerprints are all over it and I guess it's even more exhausting to read someone's AI written article.

I don't think it is AI, but I bet it has been through editing/review to match a corporate style. LLMs were trained on this.

I also thought "I'm so glad this isn't AI" but maybe I can only recognize ChatGPTs crappy writing style.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The writing style, if not AI, is at least a bit tryhard. Turning to the substance of the article: why do people feel the need to run this fast? I have certainly experimented with letting coding agents run amok. The first few times you try it, it feels like a superpower. Then you start examining the icky choices they made in a codebase that is now a dense forest. Then you have to expend a bunch of effort beating it ba…

> why do people feel the need to run this fast Because if they don't they feel like they will be replaced by someone who will

This attitude gets people to willingly engage in abusive crunch practices such as in the games industry. I think the people who are like this are the ones who later talk about crunch like it was good in some way or necessary.

Basically a bad relation to labor and sustainable lifelong work.

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