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GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

privacypros.com.au

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Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#11

Post by andai »

monksy wrote: post #6
Cider9986 wrote: post #4

It's absolutely insane that phones have online accounts deeply integrated into the OS. You need to give Apple your phone number to download any apps on iOS. For example: Say anyone that downloaded IceBlock commited crime, Apple could give the govt everyone who downloaded its phone number, the govt could get the realtime location of everyone based on their phone number from the carrier. And that's not even mentioning…

I agree with that.. additionaly, I'm finding it to be insane that organizations are trying to force you to have a "audited" phone to interact with them. (I.e. events, businesses, etc)

What is that? I don't seem to be finding anything relevant on Google.

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#12

Post by bigiain »

d--b wrote: post #3

This is a website made by people who sell phones that are 100% tracker-free, and that run on GrpheneOS. I wouldn’t recommend domestic violence victims to install graphene os on their phone by themselves

The website also says:

"Australian research shows that 99% of domestic violence cases now involve some form of technology-facilitated abuse."

Where the "Australian research" is linked to a page where the first Key Finding states:

"Over one quarter (27%) of domestic violence cases involve technology-facilitated abuse of children."

Doesn't fill me with confidence in anything they say (even if I do believe the advice is right).

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#13

Post by Cider9986 »

andai wrote: post #10

Can someone explain this? I've used custom ROMs back in the day (Cyanogen!) but I'm not familiar with GrapheneOS. I remember Cyanogen ships without Google Play etc., right? (Because if you install Google Services and a bunch of crap from their store (theirs and otherwise) that spies on you, it defeats the purpose of a privacy preserving OS. So I'm assuming Graphene is at least as strict as that? (Well Cyanogen at lea…

Zero Google services are shippsx by default, but you can install Play Store and Services in a sandbox and it has minimal privacy problems, depending on the permissions you give it.

Their docs are really good, not only for their phone but for learning about privacy and security: https://grapheneos.org

You could still install an app that spies on you on grapheneos because it has 99.99% android app compatibility, so if you gave an app designed for spying the relevant permissions, it would still be able to spy. No way it could hide location indicator or anything like that, but I doubt it could do that on other OSes (don't quote me on other OSes).

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#14

Post by Cider9986 »

d--b wrote: post #3

This is a website made by people who sell phones that are 100% tracker-free, and that run on GrpheneOS. I wouldn’t recommend domestic violence victims to install graphene os on their phone by themselves

I'm curious what you are considering with recommending buying a privacy phone vs buying a regular phone and flashing in a DV situation?

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#15

Post by Nursie »

andai wrote: post #10

Can someone explain this? I've used custom ROMs back in the day (Cyanogen!) but I'm not familiar with GrapheneOS. I remember Cyanogen ships without Google Play etc., right? (Because if you install Google Services and a bunch of crap from their store (theirs and otherwise) that spies on you, it defeats the purpose of a privacy preserving OS. So I'm assuming Graphene is at least as strict as that? (Well Cyanogen at lea…

I mean, some obvious things are there in the article, IMHO -

- App isolation and hidden profiles (up to 32 separate profiles)

- Verified Boot (tamper detection on every startup)

So you can do stuff on there that's not going to tip off someone who's controlling enough to demand to see your phone, and so you'll at least be tipped off if someone compromises it.

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#16

Post by defrost »

andai wrote: post #10

Can someone explain this? I've used custom ROMs back in the day (Cyanogen!) but I'm not familiar with GrapheneOS. I remember Cyanogen ships without Google Play etc., right? (Because if you install Google Services and a bunch of crap from their store (theirs and otherwise) that spies on you, it defeats the purpose of a privacy preserving OS. So I'm assuming Graphene is at least as strict as that? (Well Cyanogen at lea…

[flagged]

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#17

Post by bigiain »

Cider9986 wrote: post #8
arkhiver wrote: post #5

It's almost like they're trying to sell you one of their phones... not cool

I disagree, it's cool to promote good projects like GrapheneOS that help people. Have you seen how many articles recommend not secure and not private alternative phones, that's not cool. Edit: damn some of their phones with it preloaded are like 4x the price your can get for pixels in the state's. Can't speak to Australian prices for regular pixels tho.

The cheapest option, Pixel 10, costs $1349 from Google, they want $1990 (in Australian Dollars, that's about $940 and $1390 in USD)

So not quite a 50% markup on the bard phone, not quite as bad as 4x.

And while I'd feel like a jerk if I asked for money helping someone at risk of DV setting this up, if I was doing it as a business with the mandatory warranty and support this'd need to include in Australia, I think that's expensive but probably fair?

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#18

Post by andwur »

andai wrote: post #11
monksy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with that.. additionaly, I'm finding it to be insane that organizations are trying to force you to have a "audited" phone to interact with them. (I.e. events, businesses, etc)

What is that? I don't seem to be finding anything relevant on Google.

Likely referring to Android's Play Integrity/hardware attestation API (good explainer from GrapheneOS [1]) that is practically used to restrict what devices/brands/Android builds an app will allow itself to be run on.

[1] https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#19

Post by defrost »

bigiain wrote: post #12
d--b wrote: post #3

This is a website made by people who sell phones that are 100% tracker-free, and that run on GrpheneOS. I wouldn’t recommend domestic violence victims to install graphene os on their phone by themselves

The website also says: "Australian research shows that 99% of domestic violence cases now involve some form of technology-facilitated abuse." Where the "Australian research" is linked to a page where the first Key Finding states: "Over one quarter (27%) of domestic violence cases involve technology-facilitated abuse of children." Doesn't fill me with confidence in anything they say (even if I do believe the advice is…

The relevant quote* from the linked Australian research is:

  Technology-facilitated abuse is becoming more and more of a key feature of domestic and family violence. A 2015 survey of 546 domestic and family violence frontline workers found that 98% of respondents had clients who had experienced technology-facilitated abuse.
The research then focuses specifically on children, finding that of all the domestic violence cases, 27% involve technology-facilitated abuse of children.

Can you expand on what it is that "Doesn't fill [you] with confidence" ?

* Page 9: https://www.esafety.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-12/Child...

Re: GrapheneOS recommended for domestic abuse victims

#20

Post by Cider9986 »

bigiain wrote: post #17
Cider9986 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, it's cool to promote good projects like GrapheneOS that help people. Have you seen how many articles recommend not secure and not private alternative phones, that's not cool. Edit: damn some of their phones with it preloaded are like 4x the price your can get for pixels in the state's. Can't speak to Australian prices for regular pixels tho.

The cheapest option, Pixel 10, costs $1349 from Google, they want $1990 (in Australian Dollars, that's about $940 and $1390 in USD) So not quite a 50% markup on the bard phone, not quite as bad as 4x. And while I'd feel like a jerk if I asked for money helping someone at risk of DV setting this up, if I was doing it as a business with the mandatory warranty and support this'd need to include in Australia, I think tha…

Yeah fair enough. I see 400-500 USD new 10s on eBay so that's where I was coming from. I wonder how much shipping and importing from the US would be.

Interesting they don't sell the 10a, seems like a great budget phone from what I've seen.

Edit: I didn't consider taxes and initially I assumed exchange rates were more similar then they are.

Law in my profile heh (not on purpose)

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