Live data from Hacker News

SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

ft.com

621–630 of 638 posts

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a listing on the board and an inclusion in an index are two different things Nobody contested this. You said inclusion was “a prerequisite for trading the stock on the board.” That is incorrect.

If Nastaq hadn't agreed SpaceX would have listed on the NYSE instead.

Sure. That’s listing. Not trading. Big difference.

New Milennium regulations don’t let listing boards or issuers say where their stock can and can’t be traded.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you are buying an instrument where you can lose more than you invested, the approach maybe wrong? :-) This is precisely why shorting can lose more than you "invest", because you're not buying an instrument, you're selling it with the intent (or promise, depending on what kind of instrument it is) to buy it back later, hopefully at a lower price. The risk is unbounded.

Not true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_(finance) There are, as said, depending on juristic regime, products which do not let you lose more than you invested. On top of this comes national regulation: E.g. in some EU countries, retail traders are exempt from s.c. "margin calls" and the broker is required by regulation to "just close and not ask for more" Source: Im living in one of these EU countries

I'm not familiar with turbos, but to me it sounds like a CFD? How does a short position on a turbo prevent you from losing more than what you "put in"[0]? If you're shorting underlying X at price Y with a turbo, and price moves to Y+10, you're going to lose 10 times the leverage factor. You could have stop orders, but those are not guaranteed to fill at a price that would cap your loss to a desired amount.

> the broker is required by regulation to "just close and not ask for more"

Some American brokers will also forcibly close your position instead of issuing a margin call. Do you mean that under those national regulations, the broker is required to eat the losses?

[0]: in quotes, since with a short position it's not really the case that you put something in.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#623
Is really anyone surprise about this? To be honest a company that shifts goal posts constantly, that has Government as the only backer, that inflates revenue and talks about Base in Mars and the expansion of human consciousness is the definition of Red Flag. The bond so quickly after the IPO is just another scheme of the kind of people this is being targeted to. As son as you dig slightly deeper into the BizPlan and numbers you realize how much of the entire SpaceX IPO and Bond are scams.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When faced with an information asymmetry (lack of knowledge of other posters) you engage in a kind of phrenology... taking a few sentences of others and filling in huge gaps in your knowledge with biases that you cannot confirm are true and meaningful Grammatically correct sentences you can come up with are not at all guaranteed to be accurate. Sincerely... stop it. Get some help. You're a typical human dimwit. Your…

Welcome to the human condition buddy. Indirect realism or the distinction between noumena and phenomena does not mean a model is inaccurate, and it certaianly doesnt mean your hot take is the correct one.

Yeah I know, patronizing random nobody. Way to go with the only option when the potential for inaccuracy is pointed out. "It might not be inaccurate!"

Real big brain stuff wrapped in copy paste of philosophical twaddle.

Not really disproving other posters point HN discourse is better than anywhere else. Random comments about others that might be wrong are not really focus on truth.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#625
post #78
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some media companies had them before the 1980s. New York Times issued dual class in 1969 so that the owning family maintained editorial control. Berkshire Hathaway is possibly the most famous from the 80s/90s. The class A shares are significantly more expensive and proportionately even more powerful than the class B shares. The lower price version was important back when physical exchanges didn’t support fractional s…

Berkshires share classes are different in that A is exactly ten B shares and anyone can convert A to B and hold them. The dual share classes that are bad separate control from ownership.

Your ratios are way off. Price ratio is 1:1500 for A to B, while voting power ration is 1:10000. Each A share is 6.67x more powerful than 1500 x B shares.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When governments direct money to shadowy things it doesn't show up in the records as "money laundered to the CIA to try to foment insurrection" but as another normal sounding disbursal to one entity that hands it off to others (after taking a nice cut) and so on repeatedly. To actually know where the money is going you'd need to follow the path of the money from delivery to actual things being done as opposed to 'dis…

> If you could find meaningful examples of USAID doing such, you would have shared them. Thus it's safe to conclude that cannot find such, and so are now here trying to claim that nonsense is pertinent when you know it is not. That's not arguing in good faith… A bit rich. Reminder... This was you: "For instance one project was USAID/CIA starting a fake social media site in Cuba specifically with the goal of trying to…

Your argument here doesn't make any sense. Do you disagree they were trying to foment an insurrection, or that it would have been bloody if successful? I assume not, because both are rather self evident. So it's not even clear what you're arguing - that USAID always fails? Again, you get weird things when you argue in bad faith.

But whatever, if you want clear examples then there's plenty to be had in the Office of Public Safety. [1] It's as Orwellian as it sounds and was directly under USAID. Modern examples are classified, though have been regularly referenced without detail by government officials speaking on record. Cuba's is the exception in classification, and clearly demonstrates their character as an organization.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Public_Safety

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_(finance) There are, as said, depending on juristic regime, products which do not let you lose more than you invested. On top of this comes national regulation: E.g. in some EU countries, retail traders are exempt from s.c. "margin calls" and the broker is required by regulation to "just close and not ask for more" Source: Im living in one of these EU countries

I'm not familiar with turbos, but to me it sounds like a CFD? How does a short position on a turbo prevent you from losing more than what you "put in"[0]? If you're shorting underlying X at price Y with a turbo, and price moves to Y+10, you're going to lose 10 times the leverage factor. You could have stop orders, but those are not guaranteed to fill at a price that would cap your loss to a desired amount. > the brok…

It is somehow comparable but with a CFD you are betting against the market maker /issuer of the CFD, while with a turbo you bet against the market directly - the issuer is just arranging the countposition in the background.

The loss is implemented by a knockout value, depending on your leverage. In all EU countries there is no margin call allowed for retailers, but this is not relevant for turbos anyway. The loss is included in the deprecation of the price of the turbo, the issuer is just the middleman, being neutral. Compared to a CFD issuer, which can print whatever price it wants. With a turbo, the price of the turbo instrument is connected by a simple formula with the underlying price.

A turbo has an ISIN, and is highly regulated by the Financial Supervision Authorities.

Actually, turbos are a professoinal instrument but they are sold to retailers as well in most countries.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_(finance) There are, as said, depending on juristic regime, products which do not let you lose more than you invested. On top of this comes national regulation: E.g. in some EU countries, retail traders are exempt from s.c. "margin calls" and the broker is required by regulation to "just close and not ask for more" Source: Im living in one of these EU countries

I'm not familiar with turbos, but to me it sounds like a CFD? How does a short position on a turbo prevent you from losing more than what you "put in"[0]? If you're shorting underlying X at price Y with a turbo, and price moves to Y+10, you're going to lose 10 times the leverage factor. You could have stop orders, but those are not guaranteed to fill at a price that would cap your loss to a desired amount. > the brok…

And for sure, for a short position you would have to pay also the price of the instrument, which includes all the parameters/leverage? Shorts are in a way more efficient that the financing costs are working a liiiiitttle bit towards you, because of the interbanking rate that the issuer is applying, but this is negligibe for singe positions below 1m - and in reverse, with 1m per position, you wont use turbos, usually, its not the optimal instrument in those cases, in most cases

But nontheless, you as instrument user pay something, for sure.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#629
post #37
post #21

Quite honestly IPOs and the stock market in general is a Ponzi scheme. This is something I would never have said before. I am not a skeptic. I invested in the markets for years and made money on Amazon, Google, twilio, and so many others. But I also lost a lot of money buying near or after the IPO. The game is rigged. Those who put money in post IPO in the 12 months after are left holding the bag for years. It takes…

This isn't backed by any evidence though. Jay Ritter maintains an extensive amount of data on IPOs here: https://site.warrington.ufl.edu/ritter/ipo-data/ And his data shows that IPOs for the most part perform about as well as their respective market. That is large multi-billion dollar IPOs perform about as well as the broad market, and smaller IPOs (which constitute the vast majority of IPOs) perform about as well as…

> What's true is that most stocks, including IPOs, don't do well in the long run. The half-life of a publicly traded company is something like 10 years.

I was very surprised to read this and from a quick Google search, what you imply ("don't do well in the long run") is not supported by that "half-life" statistic.

"We show that the typical half-life of a publicly traded company is about a decade, regardless of business sector. [...] While liquidation is often responsible for firm deaths, a much more common cause of death relates to the disappearance of companies through mergers and acquisitions. Thus, in our definition, firms may ‘die’ through a variety of processes: they may split, merge or liquidate as economic and technological conditions change."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4424689/

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#630
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry what does the magnolia thing mean?

https://gitlab.com/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-clean-filter...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bypass_Paywalls_Clean

It is now on sketchy Russian forge due to DMCA takedowns

Post reply on HN