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My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

imdanielkendall.com

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Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#161

Post by bgun »

thereisnospork wrote: post #133
UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is genuinely lost on me why tech nerds specifically have a hard time grasping the idea that they are not the only people that matter. That sometimes, someone will know that something will upset computer nerds, and will still do the thing, because they see it as worth it overall. Like spoilt children. I genuinely don’t know if it’s the decades of SV pandering or what. MOST OF THE TIME, NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU. And t…

You seem to be missing the underlying reason(s) why tech nerds are, well, tech nerds. 0dd to be angry about tech nerds being tech nerdy about things.

In a forum for tech nerds, of all places.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#162

Post by wildfireday2 »

thin_carapace wrote: post #94
wildfireday2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, however a properly engineered safety-critical system provides separation between assurance levels, so you don’t need to have the same level of assurance for the infotainment system software that you do for safety-critical displays and controls. The FAA has historically done a good job on this front with aviation (notwithstanding the 747 MAX debacle, which was a failure implicating flight control software…

don't know where you sourced your perspective but yea based on the reports ive heard from automotive engineers, coding in autosar is the direct opposite of wild

I have first-hand experience unlike your third-hand anecdotes. AUTOSAR is a private industry consortium that develops specifications. They are voluntary and self-attested and don’t have anything like the verification and documentation processes that are mandated by DO-178 in the aviation world by regulators with both independent engineering certification and regulatory oversight. Tesla and Rivian don’t participate at all. There is no comparable regulatory framework for automotive software—at all. It is purely reactive.

And lest you take issue with my characterization or claim Tesla is a rogue outlier, let me remind you that Volkswagen shipped deliberate software emissions defeat code in 11 million diesel passenger vehicles over eight model years including half a million in the USA, and was only caught by academic researchers.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#163

Post by wildfireday2 »

pdonis wrote: post #83
mvdtnz wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Lewis Black once said that swearing has a point--it is how we express a sufficient level of rage and anger against something extremely dysfunctional. What should we say, he asked: Oh, pussyfeathers?

Lewis Black’s shtick is tired and old and yet he manages to put a lot more humor and wit into his rants than anything in this article.

It’s essentially “My car’s infotainment system fucking sucks! Fuck fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck! Fuck my life and fuck all this shit! Did you notice I used the word fuck? FUCK!” Such great writing, so original, so millennial.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#164

Post by bigstrat2003 »

afavour wrote: post #38
jeffbee wrote: post #15

Users are complicit. Why did this user install the update? Were they suffering from an issue it supposedly solves? My six-year-old Honda has never had a software update, and in any case "OTA" updates can only be initiated by the user.

No win scenario. We need to install updates because of security vulnerabilities. But we shouldn’t install updates because they might introduce bugs.

To be honest, with how poor quality some software has gotten, I refuse to update it, security issues or no. Most products aren't that bad, thankfully, but there does reach a point where the theoretical risk of a security vulnerability is outweighed by the immediate issue of "this crap doesn't work any more".

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#165

Post by fooqux »

denkmoon wrote: post #107
lifeisgood99 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very simple to write out details but make them harder to access. Motivated users will find them.

To what end? Pleasing a few nerds? Nerds that are just as likely to have ripped out the OTA modem or not be using a car like that.

We used to just do things because it was the right thing to do, or out of pride for what we were making, or sometimes just to be better than the other guy.

That everything has to be about profit is a lot of what's wrong these days. And yes, bitching about this on a YC-owned forum is just as silly as bitching about nerds here, I'm aware.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#166

Post by wildfireday2 »

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #120
ninju wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even hardware features (heated steering wheel, rain sensing wipers, etc...) are now behind software switches which the car maker can control based upon subscription or trim-level purchase. All the hardware pieces are installed at build time

You’re telling me it’s not cheaper for them to bundle the hardware but to disable it than not bundle the hardware?

The real cost is manufacturing with all the different options at different trim levels (combined with different paint jobs etc). Automakers have always made bank on options and trim. It is in fact cheaper for them to build all vehicles with the relatively cheap options and sell it as a subscription or add-on enabled by software. Engineering is in fact a large part of the option cost to begin with. The big task of the automakers is overcoming customer resistant to the “you will own nothing and be happy” model without feeling swindled being charged to use something they already own—or at least putting up with it and still paying. See Matt Walsh’s most recent monologue on this very topic.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#167

Post by tcoff91 »

Cloudef wrote: post #114
faangguyindia wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, i am not asking for AOT OTA update. AOT will be in base app and it will include JIT or Interpreted OTA updates. For Apple, JIT can simply be disabled and OTA update can run patched part in interpreter. But JIT works on Android (well), so this Hybrid system is capable of being much faster than React Native where your JS code only runs in Hermes VM which isn't JIT. In this system, all your crazy math and algorithms…

Apple does not allow running code from internet either (even if interpreted iirc) That said shipping JIT / interpreter with your program to recompile updates / parts of it sounds silly to me.

There's 2 different parts of their terms about this. One seems to forbid it. The other basically says that you can do it as long as you aren't shipping some kind of update to the app that changes its nature significantly. Basically the generally accepted viewpoint in the industry is that you can OTA bugfixes and small changes but you if you ship whole features without going through app store review first you are definitely on thin ice.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#168

Post by lmz »

BeetleB wrote: post #123
lmz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Android Auto and Apple Carplay. Not sure how that's an "isolated HW function". That would be an issue if they put the turn signals or AC controls on the screen only.

> That would be an issue if they put the turn signals or AC controls on the screen only. Many cars have AC controls on the screen only.

I know, and that is a separate issue from what the post is complaining about being broken.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#169

Post by BeetleB »

xmprt wrote: post #159
BeetleB wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the contrary, having cars stop trying to provide a bespoke more-proprietary outdated piece of software you have less control over, probably have surreptitious telemetry reporting back from, and might have to pay a subscription fee for, and instead just delegate to the smartphone you already have, is a huge and surprising win. I'd agree if it worked. Android Auto sucks. And I don't like that my auto manufacturer…

Android Auto sucks but I guarantee that any software that those car companies would have made in house would be many times worse.

Disagree. They mostly suck in a different way, with neither being better than the other. I've often switched back and forth.

But this is a red herring. With older cars, you could install a 3rd party system and it was far superior to Android Auto for the basic things I need.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#170

Post by BeetleB »

maxdo wrote: post #145
BeetleB wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The entire idea that everytime you sit in the car you need to pair your devices, Why would you get that idea? Do you have to pair your phone every time for all other Bluetooth products?

because that's the only way to use that CarPlay, if you need music, navigation, etc. if you have a standalone computer you don't have to do so.

I still have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm not speaking in the abstract. I've done this before on older cars.

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