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My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

imdanielkendall.com

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Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#121

Post by BeetleB »

maxdo wrote: post #29
BeetleB wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the contrary, having cars stop trying to provide a bespoke more-proprietary outdated piece of software you have less control over, probably have surreptitious telemetry reporting back from, and might have to pay a subscription fee for, and instead just delegate to the smartphone you already have, is a huge and surprising win. I'd agree if it worked. Android Auto sucks. And I don't like that my auto manufacturer…

why on earth you need an aftermarket receiver of Bluetooth? The cost of the module is few dollars. My cheap ac has bluethooth, just to connect it wifi, i used it once in it's lifetime. The entire idea that everytime you sit in the car you need to pair your devices, what if you have several devices in the car etc ? it's such a horrible, broken, neurotic idea.

> The entire idea that everytime you sit in the car you need to pair your devices,

Why would you get that idea? Do you have to pair your phone every time for all other Bluetooth products?

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#122

Post by BeetleB »

cyberax wrote: post #45
BeetleB wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the contrary, having cars stop trying to provide a bespoke more-proprietary outdated piece of software you have less control over, probably have surreptitious telemetry reporting back from, and might have to pay a subscription fee for, and instead just delegate to the smartphone you already have, is a huge and surprising win. I'd agree if it worked. Android Auto sucks. And I don't like that my auto manufacturer…

> Android Auto sucks. No, it doesn't. It's a very simple streaming protocol. It's literally a gRPC-encapsulated stream of h264 frames over a USB connection. With touch events and some car-related telemetry streamed back. You can implement it in a weekend: https://github.com/mrmees/open-android-auto You can create whatever you want, including just streaming videos onto the head unit or making it play Doom while drivin…

Maybe I'm being imprecise.

What I mean is: When I enable Android Auto on my phone and on my car, and connect the two, I get something that has a poor UI and sucks.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#123

Post by BeetleB »

lmz wrote: post #50
BeetleB wrote: post #13

It's not an indictment of modern software. It's an indictment of using SW where not needed. Don't put discrete, isolated HW functions behind a SW powered screen. It's that simple.

It's Android Auto and Apple Carplay. Not sure how that's an "isolated HW function". That would be an issue if they put the turn signals or AC controls on the screen only.

> That would be an issue if they put the turn signals or AC controls on the screen only.

Many cars have AC controls on the screen only.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#124

Post by AlotOfReading »

tonymet wrote: post #98
AlotOfReading wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than hamstring all software by requiring DOT testing before firmware updates are published... I don't know how the rules work in the UK or Ireland where the author is, but the US has no such mandatory testing. Also, all manufacturers have telemetry these days and the ones I'm familiar with all do gradual rollouts (to varying levels of competence). You basically can't do immediate rollout given the scales invol…

You're right the facilities may be there for telemetry & feedback, but none of the Tesla competitors are structured to manage that telemetry and feedback. Often the brands are repackaging software from vendors (e.g. Bosch) that are terrible at fixing things. Let's face it, this really is about Tesla, vs the rest of the major players (ford, kia, VW etc)

Obviously I'm under NDA, but the data I've seen at $(OEM) was down to the level of variant tracking and real time geolocation. The commercial fleet management programs can do things like scheduled updates and know what hardware/software is in each component of each vehicle, which the manufacturer has to keep track of anyway for recall purposes.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#125

Post by undersuit »

denkmoon wrote: post #107
lifeisgood99 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very simple to write out details but make them harder to access. Motivated users will find them.

To what end? Pleasing a few nerds? Nerds that are just as likely to have ripped out the OTA modem or not be using a car like that.

Post them by the coffee machine in the dealership waiting room.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#126

Post by BeetleB »

10000truths wrote: post #76
strawhatguy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much this. The less software on the car, the fewer problems. It's practically impossible to test every permutation of code against every system. Maybe AI can help, but practically it'll just mean the software gets more complicated, with more features. And to top it all off, more and more features get regulated , so they have to be there. The rear-view camera requirement in particular, since you need a screen t…

It all comes down to cost. At scale, testing hardware is appreciably more expensive than testing software. The former requires specialized machinery that costs the soul of your firstborn, and the logistics overhead for each do-over means long iteration times. The latter can be done with a CI pipeline for pennies worth of compute in a fraction of a working day.

Stuff like climate control and radio/Bluetooth were included in many/most cars in the last decade. Expensive as they were, the cars were a lot cheaper than today's cars. And they just worked, which means they were either so simple that sophisticated testing wasn't necessary, or they tested it thoroughly.

I don't think they're saving that much by ditching them and going to SW.

They also didn't need updates (well, the Bluetooth module may have, but nothing else).

It definitely was nice not to have to worry whether the climate control may stop working because the radio was modified. Or because of any update.

As a driver, dumping everything into one SW system has significantly degraded my experience. What I gain ("Ooh, I can now use Waze on a bigger screen!") is minimal.

> The latter can be done with a CI pipeline for pennies worth of compute in a fraction of a working day.

I'd appreciate the point if they were successful at it. As it is, they're not. It's rare to find a non-buggy car.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#128

Post by BeetleB »

tonymet wrote: post #63
BeetleB wrote: post #13

It's not an indictment of modern software. It's an indictment of using SW where not needed. Don't put discrete, isolated HW functions behind a SW powered screen. It's that simple.

wouldn't that be impossible in this case? since android auto needs to draw to the screen, control infotainment, etc. even a dedicated USB + rocker switch for android auto would still need a software path to do those things

Putting things like climate control, car settings, etc on the same screen as Android Auto is not at all necessary.

Older cars (that still had touch sensitive displays), simply had separate HW modules and HW interfaces (buttons/switches) for the rest. You never had to worry that modifying/repairing/updating one would impact the other.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#129

Post by pessimizer »

UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #118
denkmoon wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To what end? Pleasing a few nerds? Nerds that are just as likely to have ripped out the OTA modem or not be using a car like that.

It is genuinely lost on me why tech nerds specifically have a hard time grasping the idea that they are not the only people that matter. That sometimes, someone will know that something will upset computer nerds, and will still do the thing, because they see it as worth it overall. Like spoilt children. I genuinely don’t know if it’s the decades of SV pandering or what. MOST OF THE TIME, NOBODY CARES ABOUT YOU. And t…

This is a pretty dumb response, not only because the idea that knowledgeable people matter ≠ knowledgeable people are the "only people that matter," but also because the alternative that you're crowing about is that nobody matters (other than you, the person selling the thing.) You're accusing people of being narcissistic for wanting any information, and bragging about only being guided by your own desires. It's really a moral toilet.

The "tech nerds" is a bullshit term for "people with the background to understand the explanation." If you're not explaining it to them, you're not explaining it to anyone. You're just subjecting everyone to your whims, and really should be regulated into the unemployment line.

Re: My car’s OTA update broke Android Auto

#130

Post by taneq »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #85
taneq wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> standardized port (and perhaps a wireless standard) for a combination of video output, audio output, touchscreen input, and charging, with optional standardized sensor inputs So a web browser loading a page off the phone? :)

Emphatically not. I want the head unit to act as a dumb terminal for the phone. My first instinct would be a USB-C docking station supporting DisplayPort video, various interesting USB devices, and a descriptor that makes it clear it's a car's head unit so the device can intelligently offer a car-specific experience.

Oh, right, more like a car-flavoured docking station? That does sound better, it relies on the car for less in terms of functionality so it should be more consistent and futureproof.
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