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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#261

Post by remus »

semiquaver wrote: post #251
leecommamichael wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokenizers define the alphabet on which the language model is trained. I don't want people to get the impression it's a module which can be swapped out or modified on its own. Alphabet size is a design consideration related to correctly encoding the training data.

I’ve been struggling to understand the reason for the newer apparently less efficient Anthropic token encoding. If all inputs are less efficient in this encoding, why does it exist? Has Anthropic released any information that would convincingly show it was anything other than a stealth price hike? Please don’t respond if you are speculating.

> Please don’t respond if you are speculating.

I doubt you are going to get a response from an anthropic employee, but I think it is safe to assume they have swapped to a new tokenizer because it improves the performance of their models.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#262

Post by fmind-dev »

Tiberium wrote: post #2

More details: - https://platform.kimi.ai/docs/guide/kimi-k3-quickstart - https://platform.kimi.ai/docs/pricing/chat-k3 1M context, pricing is $3/$15 for 1M tokens (cache $0.3), which is extremely high for a Chinese open-weight model, but if it's truly competitive with most of the current frontier and is only behind Fable/Sol, the pricing is justified. This is 1:1 pricing of Anthropic's Sonnet series (except Sonnet 5…

API prices are amazing, but hosting this on-premise will be real challenge.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#263

Post by vitalyan8184 »

carljungslabtek wrote: post #233
vitalyan8184 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Is this really true? I was led to believe my company had an enterprise zero data retention agreement with them and it’s why we didn’t get access to Fable Is there proof of what you’re saying or is it just a guess?

oh, I've no doubt the US government and giga corporations can get zero data retention without ten pages of fine print. the rest of us can't.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#264

Post by abraxas »

simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

loving the comintern neckerchief on it!

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#265

Post by modeless »

Anthropic's "durable advantage" theory of US AI dominance is looking pretty silly. There's zero indication that it will be hard for China to keep pace as models improve and start contributing to their own training. Which pretty much invalidates their policy recommendations.

They can't even blame it on distillation this time, unless they want to claim that their own preferred security measures were ineffective in preventing Chinese access to Mythos.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#266

Post by tokai »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #151
dghlsakjg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokenizers also matter. Anthropics tokenizers will encode the same piece of text at a way higher token count than OpenAi, for example. That said, Kimi is competing against GLM in my mind, and GLM 5.2 is less than 1/3 the price.

GLM is actually quite expensive in actual practice because it's not very token efficient. I've yet to find a way to run it on a monthly sub reliably for cheaper than Codex. Neuralwatt was cheap (but slow) but they cranked their price. Ollama monthly sub is speedy but doesn't offer a lot of quota. Right now unless you're paying by the token, there's no cost based reason to use the open weight models for daily coding w…

Compared to the flagship models GLM is still a 1/10th the price on the task I have tested.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#267

Post by austinthetaco »

zarzavat wrote: post #243
natrys wrote: post #227

Some official benchmark numbers posted in Chinese social media (I am sure they will publish an English blogpost later too): https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/V4xhEIy8xDXSMDPrPkmUAQ Generally looks like a Sol/Fable tier model, better across the board than Opus 4.8. (Edit) English blogpost is up now: https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3

It's like reading Anthropic's obituary.

This is weird and reactionary. Lots of organizations are continuing to refuse to use chinese models due to security and IP concerns. Anthropic/american models aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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