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Book prizes don't work how you think

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Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#81

Post by vintermann »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #48
neponeko wrote: post #14

What cronyism buys you is restarts. Having an enforcer can get you more than the 20 pages. You’ll be read to the end by every judge, and you may not get the award (these are competitive, and even most people with good enforcers aren’t great writers) but you’ll get a thought-out reason if it’s a rejection. You’ll know that everyone tried to find a yes because, while they were allowed to say no and eventually did, not…

The fact is that the supply of people wanting to write books greatly exceeds the demand of readers. It’s inevitable that most books barely get read by anyone. You either accept it or you find something else to do.

Not exactly. I have some voracious readers in my family, but none of them ever tried to publish themselves (despite, in my sister's case, winning an award for a novella written as schoolwork).

The thing is that we want to read the same books. And it's not just about quality. It sucks to be the only one to enjoy a great book, to stand there feeling like you're a Star Trek nerd trying to explain your obsession to a group of rural Siberians.

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#82

Post by vintermann »

deanputney wrote: post #40
crackercrews wrote: post #39

I think she's missing the point here. First she says: > Every couple of years, someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about complains publicly that judging panels are picking books based on wokeness or diversity quotas or some other nonsense. OK, so the judging panels are not picking books based on diversity quotas, cool. But then she admits that the longlists are subject to diversity quotas: > It’s true that…

Neither part of that quote mentions a quota for the longlists. Am I missing something?

Not strictly speaking a quota, but they do say that they do look over their shortlists for diversity (of some unspecified kind) and that they never had to adjust their lists because of it.

That second part is presented as damning evidence that there's nothing like quotas - but all it really means is that they've fully internalized the requirements, whatever they were.

(It reminds me of Nate Silver's recent statement that Disney had almost never interfered in their editorial policy. Nate also thought that was a defense, even though what it really shows is that Disney was willing to interfere but almost never had reason to - Nate being almost perfectly aligned to their interests already.)

I don't know the exact process by which judges are picked, but it's not surprising that they should be so aligned on diversity and what kinds of diversity, just as they will be fairly aligned on ideas of what makes a book enjoyable or good.

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#83

Post by imzadi »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #37
imzadi wrote: post #11

I've read for screenwriting contests and it is pretty much the same thing. During the first round of reading, they usually expect you to read a minimum number of pages (usually 20 pages). Only one person will read your script during the first round, so if it doesn't catch their attention you will be cut. During the subsequent rounds you are generally expected to read the whole thing, but most of the worst stuff has a…

Do you have any recommendations on which screenwriting contests are worth submitting to for a first-time historical fiction screenwriter? I've previously published a nonfiction book and am familiar with that side of things but am brand new to the screenwriting world and there are far more film festivals and competitions than I expected (and almost all seem to charge a submission fee)

It's been a while, but Austin, Nicholl, Slamdance and Page are the main ones that I'd recommend. Smaller ones that include coverage might be worth it sometimes just to get the feedback. Get involved with some screenwriting communities and see which ones people are talking about the most.

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#84

Post by atlasunshrugged »

imzadi wrote: post #83
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any recommendations on which screenwriting contests are worth submitting to for a first-time historical fiction screenwriter? I've previously published a nonfiction book and am familiar with that side of things but am brand new to the screenwriting world and there are far more film festivals and competitions than I expected (and almost all seem to charge a submission fee)

It's been a while, but Austin, Nicholl, Slamdance and Page are the main ones that I'd recommend. Smaller ones that include coverage might be worth it sometimes just to get the feedback. Get involved with some screenwriting communities and see which ones people are talking about the most.

Okay awesome, a friend recommended Slamdance too so I'm glad to hear some confirmation there!

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#85

Post by neponeko »

vintermann wrote: post #81
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact is that the supply of people wanting to write books greatly exceeds the demand of readers. It’s inevitable that most books barely get read by anyone. You either accept it or you find something else to do.

Not exactly. I have some voracious readers in my family, but none of them ever tried to publish themselves (despite, in my sister's case, winning an award for a novella written as schoolwork). The thing is that we want to read the same books. And it's not just about quality. It sucks to be the only one to enjoy a great book, to stand there feeling like you're a Star Trek nerd trying to explain your obsession to a gro…

That’s the problem. Literary culture requires nucleation—for shared discussion and to finance projects. But the real talent differences are not steep enough to justify it. I I said my offline identity there is a chance you would recognize me and, while obscure, I actually am a top 1% writer. But there have to be thousands of obscure figures who are just as good and who are even more invisible.

Meanwhile, the talentless jokers who run the industry continue to promote mediocrity, and the world slowly loses readers.

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#86

Post by neponeko »

shermantanktop wrote: post #35
neponeko wrote: post #14

What cronyism buys you is restarts. Having an enforcer can get you more than the 20 pages. You’ll be read to the end by every judge, and you may not get the award (these are competitive, and even most people with good enforcers aren’t great writers) but you’ll get a thought-out reason if it’s a rejection. You’ll know that everyone tried to find a yes because, while they were allowed to say no and eventually did, not…

This all sounds informed and authoritative. And it’s believable. But can I ask how you came to these conclusions? Did you attempt this? Do you know authors getting 500k every two years?

I know probably three dozen authors.

$500k every two years seems great for a job that so many people romanticize, but the money goes fast. The writing is the easy part. Self promotion becomes a full-time job, and you do the writing in your off hours.

Also, you don’t get to take all that money home. Your agent gets 15%, but you’ll never get published at all without one. And there is an unspoken rule that you must put a certain fraction of your advance into marketing yourself, the proportion depending on genre and level. Most authors at the $500k level (“major deal”) have to retain publicists and live in New York to sustain it. The publisher might give you one hour per quarter with a publicist if you’re really lucky. If you want favors called in and arms twisted to get your book coverage, you have to pay for that on your own.

The best way to be a writer is honestly to get a 9-5 you don’t hate and that stays 9-5, and then self-publish and accept the likelihood of obscurity. The book world is toxic and the proportion of actual smart people isn’t zero but it’s no higher than you’d find in a decent high school.

If you go trad and you genre-maxx, you’ll get typecast to one niche and be treated like shit the moment the house no longer sees you as a reliable 7-figure line item. If you try to go literary, you’re forced to write within the narrow confines of a social class and format you probably won’t enjoy for the next forty years.

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#87

Post by Cpoll »

culi wrote: post #2

Pretty interesting post. I guess I'm surprised that it's just like 5 people doing most of it and the most complex structure is still just 2 stages usually (Pulitzer: 5 judges send 3 books to a special council to pick a winner). It makes me think you probably get as much value from following a few specific critics as you would from following these prizes I wonder how the reviewers feel when authors like Ursula K. Le G…

Le Guin refused a Nebula, and I think those are selected by member voting.

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#88

Post by themadturk »

WolfeReader wrote: post #28
kccqzy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lending or selling ebooks necessarily requires DRM. A large part of the community thinks having DRM is way worse than not being able to lend or sell.

Selling books doesn't require DRM at all. I buy DRM-free books all the time. As an example: Kobo will tell you, at the bottom of each book's page, if it has DRM or not. And it will happily sell you a book without DRM and let you download it.

"Selling" doesn't require DRM; publishers require DRM. So not every book you want to buy or can buy is available without DRM. Not even authors especially want DRM. Kobo will only let you buy a book without DRM if the publisher makes it available that way.

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#89

Post by WolfeReader »

themadturk wrote: post #88
WolfeReader wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling books doesn't require DRM at all. I buy DRM-free books all the time. As an example: Kobo will tell you, at the bottom of each book's page, if it has DRM or not. And it will happily sell you a book without DRM and let you download it.

"Selling" doesn't require DRM; publishers require DRM. So not every book you want to buy or can buy is available without DRM. Not even authors especially want DRM. Kobo will only let you buy a book without DRM if the publisher makes it available that way.

If you say "publishers require DRM" and then say that publishers sometimes sell books without DRM, you might need to review the definition of the word "require".

Some publishers require DRM. Which is entirely different than the false claim made earlier that "selling ebooks necessarily requires DRM".

Re: Book prizes don't work how you think

#90

Post by shermantanktop »

neponeko wrote: post #86
shermantanktop wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This all sounds informed and authoritative. And it’s believable. But can I ask how you came to these conclusions? Did you attempt this? Do you know authors getting 500k every two years?

I know probably three dozen authors. $500k every two years seems great for a job that so many people romanticize, but the money goes fast. The writing is the easy part. Self promotion becomes a full-time job, and you do the writing in your off hours. Also, you don’t get to take all that money home. Your agent gets 15%, but you’ll never get published at all without one. And there is an unspoken rule that you must put…

Interesting! how did you come to know three dozen authors?

I know 2-3 published authors --- published at all, not fulltime authors, just people who got a book published. In my history of acquaintances I know of one mildly successful fantasy author who is making a living at it (parent of a classmate of my child).

So 36 seems like a very high number to me... maybe you sell typewriters? or Wite-Out?

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