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SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

latimes.com

221–230 of 302 posts

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're perfectly consistent. An absured valuation isn't evidence of fraud. Exceptional capital formation isn't fraud either. You're conflating overpriced, good at raising money and scam as if they're synonyms. I am curious how the absurd bank price targets will play out in the long-term and if there will be any repercussions but its hard to immediately jump to scam but I realize this is the favorite fan-fic for folk…

“Good at raising money” = scam. The valuation is based of fraudulent promises, just like Musk’s other scam, TSLA.

> just like Musk’s other scam, TSLA

Just so we're clear: You think that the only company selling EVs in the USA for a net profit is a scam?

What do you call Rivian, Lucid, Fisker, Bolinger, Lordstown, Slate, and Aptera?

Slate has been conspicuously silent about orders since the day after launch. Lucid is on the brink of bankruptcy. Fisker has gone bankrupt... twice. Lordstown no longer exists (with assets purchased for pennies on the dollar by their former CEO). Aptera has reorganized more times than I can count, and has been planning to release their product any day now for over 10 years!

Rivian actually lost a lawsuit this year for misleading investors about the potential profitability of their product leading up to IPO. An IPO which raised more money in one fell swoop than all the external funding Tesla had in their entire existence. By your own metric, is Rivian not a bigger scam than Tesla?

By the way, a bad fact for Rivian in that case was that they sexually harassed a female exec, who turned around and revealed (in her own lawsuit against them, just weeks before IPO) that the expected ASP of the R1 would be less than the production cost. Oops.

And, somehow, Tesla is the problem. Yea, that makes sense.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not and I think those types of opinions erode any rational discussion. It’s part of the problem with these discussions. There are extreme views that take a position that is not defendable but follow the hive mind for whatever side they are on. I like to think in shades of gray and I am somewhere in the middle. Tesla? Amazing product, crazy valuation. SpaceX, some of the underlying products are indeed very…

Musk literally said SpaceX would be worth more than all of planet earth. That’s fraud.

Forward-looking statements (even unrealistic ones) are not fraud. If that's your standard for fraud, then literally every public company is a fraud.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a scam only if you think the stock market in general is a scam. Remember, SpaceX is completely globally dominant in its industries (launch technology and orbital telecom)

"SpaceX is completely globally dominant in its industries (launch technology and orbital telecom)" 1. Have you seen what the Chinese have come up with? https://x.com/pronounced_kyle/status/2075526710003413004 2. None of these things are, where the money is supposed to come from in the future: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHD8BDFYyGI I don't know the future, nor do I give investing advise. I don't want this stock.

I don't understand what kind of media someone has to consume to not understand that SpaceX does completely globally dominate launch services. Like, it's not even close.

I have no opinion on whether other companies might catch up to them (either tomorrow or 10 years from now), but your quote is a completely accurate statement about the world as it exists today.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Good at raising money” = scam. The valuation is based of fraudulent promises, just like Musk’s other scam, TSLA.

Definitely not and I think those types of opinions erode any rational discussion. It’s part of the problem with these discussions. There are extreme views that take a position that is not defendable but follow the hive mind for whatever side they are on. I like to think in shades of gray and I am somewhere in the middle. Tesla? Amazing product, crazy valuation. SpaceX, some of the underlying products are indeed very…

The term scam is definitely inflammatory, but I think the sentiment is fair considering the unprecedented and extreme overvaluation and the unrealistic justification for it. It's even worse when you consider Elon's consistent track record of over-promising and under-delivering. Taken together with Elon's role in gutting regulations and coordinating to change listing rules, it's totally fair to characterize what's going on as intentional dishonesty for profit - i.e. a scam.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#225
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Musk did, by arguing for fast-track index inclusion. He wasn't saying "you all will eat shit on this deal", he was promising exceptional returns.

I don't follow that logic, why does wanting something sooner imply higher expectations of results? Did musk explicitly claim he expected exceptional returns? I don't think I'd be surprised either way, but I'm not sure what he's actually said.

If SpaceX followed the existing rules for index inclusion, after a year and profitable, nobody would have a problem.

They managed to maneuver "immediately and with no profit" and now they're tanking. That's bad, all of us with a 401k are losing money because of it. The people pointing this out are not the problem, SpaceX's (or I should say xAI's performance) is the problem.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#226
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Musk did, by arguing for fast-track index inclusion. He wasn't saying "you all will eat shit on this deal", he was promising exceptional returns.

I don't follow that logic, why does wanting something sooner imply higher expectations of results? Did musk explicitly claim he expected exceptional returns? I don't think I'd be surprised either way, but I'm not sure what he's actually said.

Part of the reason for the long window before inclusion is so that the price is reasonably stable and the market has had a chance to do it's whole price discovery dance for a little while before index funds etc are forced to buy in. Part of Musks goal with lobbying for early inclusion was to prop up the price by requiring the index funds to buy and hold his stock which gives a larger market for the insiders to sell in to. He wanted to unlock that giant pool of passive investment without having to wait like everyone else had to and prove profitability over multiple quarters.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#227

Ive never understood why so many people seem to cheer for Elon's companies to fail.

Because he's a psychopath who is actively making the world worse. Anyone who stands on stage with a chain saw and cuts US AID with a smile on his face is a truly horrible person. Anyone who hoards a trillion dollars while others starve is a truly horrible person. Did you root for the Empire in Star Wars? I hope nothing but the worst for him so maybe someone with a conscious and a soul replaces him.

It has helped me to live with the model that the probability of there being any sort of objective morality or ethics is close to zero, and that a hierarchy of influence within any given context is generally unavoidable. Once you accept this model, you spend less time moralising and angering yourself over perceived wrongs, and can now spend more time on figuring out how to live a happier life despite the fact that there are no set rules.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#228
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Which other IPO involves a company acquiring a completely unrelated company just before IPO in order to bail the founder out of a bad investment? Can you name even one example in the last 50 years?

SpaceX acquired Cursor after their IPO likewise did Facebook with Instagram in 2012. Since xAI was merged with SpaceX before it’s not really unrelated.

Cursor investors and employees are the biggest winners of the SpaceX IPO, even if the IPO flops, they will still get much more out of their Cursor shares than they ever had a right to expect. Some SpaceX employees have been waiting over 10 years for liquidity.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#229
This all feels like it was designed to artificially inject cash into xAI despite the average person being strongly against it. First they merge that company with SpaceX despite having very little in common in either of their infrastructure or goals, then they change the rules to get the stock out to the general public as quickly as possible on the promise that obviously it's going to explode in value and make everyone very rich to justify that decision, then once they have investor cash in-hand the stock price slips. I think they just tried to leverage SpaceX's relatively popular, positive image into investments into xAI by more or less giving up on SpaceX being anything but a wrapper around xAI.

Re: SpaceX stock erases all its gains and slides below IPO price in intraday trading

#230
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX acquired Cursor after their IPO likewise did Facebook with Instagram in 2012. Since xAI was merged with SpaceX before it’s not really unrelated.

Cursor investors and employees are the biggest winners of the SpaceX IPO, even if the IPO flops, they will still get much more out of their Cursor shares than they ever had a right to expect. Some SpaceX employees have been waiting over 10 years for liquidity.

SpaceX bought back shares twice yearly
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