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Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

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Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#21

Post by user3939382 »

cognitiveinline wrote: post #6

Wonderful. I also learnt about TrollStore today - https://github.com/opa334/TrollStore . Glad the apple ecosystem is being opened up (albeit unwillingly) by hackers.

> 16.7.x (excluding 16.7 RC) and 17.0.1+ will NEVER be supported (unless a third CoreTrust bug is discovered, which is unlikely).

I am 100% over the walled garden, lock out, right to disrepair bullshit. If we had a government instead of a quasi-fascist kleptocracy billion+ dollar corps wouldn’t have the power to do this.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#22

Post by zeratax »

jeroenhd wrote: post #9
wolvoleo wrote: post #2

The biggest question imo is why does Mozilla not do this

One reason is that Apple does not permit regional binaries, so you cannot use the same listing in the EU/Japan/Brazil/whatever other place may force Apple to act sociable and the rest of the world. Creating a separate app would work, but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. Yo…

Would they actually need to distribute this app outside of the appstore?

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#23

Post by jeroenhd »

zeratax wrote: post #22
jeroenhd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is that Apple does not permit regional binaries, so you cannot use the same listing in the EU/Japan/Brazil/whatever other place may force Apple to act sociable and the rest of the world. Creating a separate app would work, but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. Yo…

Would they actually need to distribute this app outside of the appstore?

Need to? Probably not. Reynard isn't on the app store, though, so Mozilla's efforts wouldn't be very comparable if it wasn't.

Plus, iOS can really use a solid F-Droid alternative.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#24

Post by BoppreH »

dotdi wrote: post #4

A bit of context: Apple is being forced by different jurisdictions (EU, UK, Japan) to allow third-party browser engines. In all other regions it's still not allowed to use them. Apple has been maliciously compliant, putting up roadblocks to testing and distribution. For example, the existing Firefox iOS app cannot be simply updated to use Gecko/Servo; it needs to be a new app. As far as I know, none of the major brow…

The other requirements are also pretty vague and give Apple full discretion to remove browsers they don't like:

https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engi...

> Use memory-safe programming languages, or features that improve memory safety within other languages, within the alternative web browser engine at a minimum for all code that processes web content;

> Adopt the latest security mitigations (for example, Pointer Authentication Codes) that remove classes of vulnerabilities or make it much harder to develop an exploit chain;

These allow Apple to take a security-maximalist approach and block alternative browsers that don't include the most performance-killing mitigations possible.

I don't think these points are bad per-se, but within the context of malicious compliance that Apple has already displayed, I'd be scared to invest money on alternative browser for iOS.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#25

Post by wolvoleo »

zeratax wrote: post #22
jeroenhd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason is that Apple does not permit regional binaries, so you cannot use the same listing in the EU/Japan/Brazil/whatever other place may force Apple to act sociable and the rest of the world. Creating a separate app would work, but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. Yo…

Would they actually need to distribute this app outside of the appstore?

No, in the EU they should be able to distribute this

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#26

Post by wolvoleo »

jeroenhd wrote: post #9
wolvoleo wrote: post #2

The biggest question imo is why does Mozilla not do this

One reason is that Apple does not permit regional binaries, so you cannot use the same listing in the EU/Japan/Brazil/whatever other place may force Apple to act sociable and the rest of the world. Creating a separate app would work, but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. Yo…

Hmm it worked for Microsoft and other companies have also done a switch as you pointed out (I remember facebook splitting off messenger and later putting it back).

> Furthermore, developers cannot actually use the released app they've made if they're in the US, where a lot of Firefox devs are.

Yeah that's a bit insane.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#27

Post by glandium »

BoppreH wrote: post #24
dotdi wrote: post #4

A bit of context: Apple is being forced by different jurisdictions (EU, UK, Japan) to allow third-party browser engines. In all other regions it's still not allowed to use them. Apple has been maliciously compliant, putting up roadblocks to testing and distribution. For example, the existing Firefox iOS app cannot be simply updated to use Gecko/Servo; it needs to be a new app. As far as I know, none of the major brow…

The other requirements are also pretty vague and give Apple full discretion to remove browsers they don't like: https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engi... > Use memory-safe programming languages, or features that improve memory safety within other languages, within the alternative web browser engine at a minimum for all code that processes web content; > Adopt the latest security mitigations (for…

For instance, rust doesn't support PAC yet https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/73628. Support for PAC wasn't even in upstream LLVM for a while (it now is, but lld still doesn't support it).

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#29

Post by RunSet »

jeroenhd wrote: post #18
ghusto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but I don't buy any of that. I've been defending Mozilla for years, but enough's enough. > but all existing Firefox users would have to download a second Firefox browser app, probably sync their accounts if they want to keep their data, and then remove the old one manually. You'd end with a Google Meet/Microsoft Teams situation (where one app is labeled "new" and it confuses the hell out of everyone) You're ma…

> You tell someone who's dying for a non-webkit browser on iOS Firefox has struggled to get the sliver of market share they have today. I highly doubt that there are that many people like you and me who crave a real Firefox engine on iOS. > which is what they should be testing anyway Having a large part of your team be unable to reproduce bugs is a significant development issue. Some of these operating system feature…

> Firefox has struggled to get the sliver of market share they have today. I highly doubt that there are that many people like you and me who crave a real Firefox engine on iOS.

Egg on Apple's face for expending so much effort to deny so few people something they don't actually want.

Re: Reynard: A real Firefox web browser for iOS 13 or later

#30

Post by Shank »

So close to something you could install in Japan via AltStore:

> One or more apps in source "Reynard Browser" are missing a marketplaceID. This most likely means they are not notarized, which is not supported by this version of AltStore.

I'm really looking to a successful version of a Gecko browser that can be installed with just AltStore via the Japanese law.

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