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Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

atproto.com

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Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#71

Post by LelouBil »

eqvinox wrote: post #25

Cool people use ActivityPub. Single vendor owned & controlled standards always turn out badly, just a question when.

Look at how ActivityPub works before saying it's single vendor controlled.

Really basically: Everyone can have their data (posts, media attachments) on whatever server they want or control, easily self hosted.

And at the same time, people can also host "apps" like Bluesky that read said data and interpret conventions in naming to show it in a meaningfull way like as posts.

you can self host your data.

you can self host a bluesky view.

It actually kind of reminds me of openstreetmap, where it's actually only a database of keys and values, but apps interpret their meanings based on conventions

Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#72

Post by danabramov »

wwalexander wrote: post #67
danabramov wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cool people use ActivityPub. ActivityPub solves a completely different (arguably, smaller) set of problems. This is like saying "Cool people use email instead of web". I have a few diagrams here that may help see just how different they are: https://overreacted.io/there-are-no-instances-in-atproto/#so... >Single vendor owned & controlled standards always turn out badly, just a question when. Yeah, which is why atpro…

The author of this comment is an engineer at Bluesky.

Are you going to write it below my every comment? I've already replied to this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48933050. Also, I don't think either claim in my reply is dependent on who wrote it. You can trivially verify them yourself.

Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#73

Post by natebc »

danabramov wrote: post #72
wwalexander wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author of this comment is an engineer at Bluesky.

Are you going to write it below my every comment? I've already replied to this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48933050 . Also, I don't think either claim in my reply is dependent on who wrote it. You can trivially verify them yourself.

Never underestimate the siren song of scene drama.

Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#74

Post by lou1306 »

pjc50 wrote: post #43
paride5745 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nightmare of the Wsocial rollout is a testament of the massive control Bluesky has on the ATProto network. If Wsocial was on ActivityPub or Nostr nothing similar would have happened. ATProto has serious centralisation problems, baked into the design. And it makes sense, considering it came out of a Twitter R&D experiment to "decentralise" Twitter itself. Pure federation was never part of the initial design. Activ…

What went wrong with Wsocial? I don't mind the quasi-central nature of bsky, it's more of a problem that it's so heavily dominated by US politics.

> it's more of a problem that it's so heavily dominated by US politics.

I agree the default Discovery feed is not great, but you can just switch to a different feed like For You or the recent Eurosky version of it, called 'fu'. It vastly improves the experience.

Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#75

Post by mschuster91 »

Quothling wrote: post #40
p-e-w wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The single point of failure is always the biggest instances or communities, which impose their rules on everyone else under threat of refusing to communicate with them. This has happened with every single federated platform, and it can’t be solved with technology because it’s fundamentally not a technology problem. People want to be where other people are, so once the community reaches a critical mass it inevitably d…

I think you will find that a lot of people find that to be a feature of the federated networks. It's how society works outside of social networks. You aren't likely to see football fans of different teams sharing pubs here in Europe. You wouldn't see judgemental people be allowed in accepting roleplaying communities and so on. Why would a network of community controlled servers be any different than this? IRC was lik…

Email and Usenet are both decentralized systems that in theory aren't affected by instance admin bitchfights anywhere near to the level of drama in the fediverse. Yes: many providers didn't mirror the binary groups due to piracy, and in email, deliverability is a constant issue thanks to spammers.

But the fediverse? Can't count how many times I've seen instance admins hold their users hostage in bitchfights over the Israel/Palestine stance of other instance admins.

Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#77

Post by paride5745 »

anon7000 wrote: post #41
paride5745 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nightmare of the Wsocial rollout is a testament of the massive control Bluesky has on the ATProto network. If Wsocial was on ActivityPub or Nostr nothing similar would have happened. ATProto has serious centralisation problems, baked into the design. And it makes sense, considering it came out of a Twitter R&D experiment to "decentralise" Twitter itself. Pure federation was never part of the initial design. Activ…

I think decentralization is just not something users care about generally. - many people wish they could control what they see and who they talk to. (Eg control the algorithm, avoid censorship from big tech) - some people care about owning their data so it doesn’t go away when a company fails - technical people are interested in building more types of social apps that aren’t just twitter posts etc - nearly everyone j…

But Bluesky does not solve these points:

- content not in line with the political left is censored

- sure, you have your data in your PDS, but it is de-facto useless if the central identity server of Bluesky goes down

- ActivityPub and Nostr solve this already without being owned by a company

- you cannot easily and cheaply have an ATProto instance. AP and Nostr solve this already

Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#78

Post by paride5745 »

pjc50 wrote: post #43
paride5745 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nightmare of the Wsocial rollout is a testament of the massive control Bluesky has on the ATProto network. If Wsocial was on ActivityPub or Nostr nothing similar would have happened. ATProto has serious centralisation problems, baked into the design. And it makes sense, considering it came out of a Twitter R&D experiment to "decentralise" Twitter itself. Pure federation was never part of the initial design. Activ…

What went wrong with Wsocial? I don't mind the quasi-central nature of bsky, it's more of a problem that it's so heavily dominated by US politics.

https://blog.elenarossini.com/w-social-a-broken-ghost-town/

Basically, because they didn't warn Bluesky that they were going live, they had their traffic heavily trottled and they were unable to function.

So long for decentralisation if you need to talk to the owner of the protocol you are trying to use...

Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#79

Post by paride5745 »

inigyou wrote: post #52
pjc50 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What went wrong with Wsocial? I don't mind the quasi-central nature of bsky, it's more of a problem that it's so heavily dominated by US politics.

Wsocial turned out to be a WEF honeypot or something.

That is not the point.

The point is that without talking with Bluesky, you cannot start your own ATProto product or you'll get throttled from the network.

Re: Bluesky Trademarks ATProto

#80

Post by paride5745 »

lou1306 wrote: post #74
pjc50 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What went wrong with Wsocial? I don't mind the quasi-central nature of bsky, it's more of a problem that it's so heavily dominated by US politics.

> it's more of a problem that it's so heavily dominated by US politics. I agree the default Discovery feed is not great, but you can just switch to a different feed like For You or the recent Eurosky version of it, called 'fu'. It vastly improves the experience.

Or join a European Mastodon server and solve the problem at the root.
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