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Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

frank.computer

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Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#31

Post by fzeroracer »

I see few people actively engaging with the thesis of the article so lemme restate it in another way:

We can agree that the invention of the car revolutionized transit, but when you optimize around cars it creates perverse incentives that warp society. American society for example is rife with these issues: Cities and towns that are fundamentally unwalkable, cars that are increasingly large and hazards to public safety and lower and lower expectations for drivers.

In that sense the AI craze is exactly the same. Even if you believe that AI will or has revolutionized coding (a take I firmly disagree with), the resulting craze is creating perverse incentives that are warping tech. Access to computing is becoming narrower and narrower as prices sky rocket, applications are becoming more unstable and unsecure by the day and more and more of our economy is reliant on AI gains that will likely not be realized. Not all tools reshape society for the better, much like how advertising was a tool for attempting to gain eyes on your product now it has become a dystopian weapon to sell your users as the product.

This is without getting into the actual issues AI has directly, just the way it's warping things around it.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#32

Post by jimkleiber »

truncate wrote: post #18
jimkleiber wrote: post #11

It seems the author is instead arguing that we should say that AI is a destructive tool and we should not use it. I was hoping the article would not label it purely good or bad, but 1) highlight that AI is not just a tool but a very powerful tool and 2) and therefore it very much matters how we all use it and how it uses us. In this framing, we can see the things where it helps and hurts us and society and many level…

I sometimes think its somewhat like opioid. Has its use, reduces pain, but then after extended use you also likely get addicted to it and starting having issues.

I mean I think sometimes it reduces pain. But it can also increase pain? I've definitely stayed up later than I've wanted to, or got into a fight with someone because I paid more attention to the AI coding agent than them, or had it convince me that I had made deep scientific breakthroughs only later to tell me everything was obvious and maybe tautological.

I just think it's a very powerful and complex tool that can cause a huge range of feelings and outcomes.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#34

Post by WelkinFolk »

trhway wrote: post #27
kykat wrote: post #26

I've read "amusing ourselves to death" and there the author also criticises the idea that new technologies are "just tools". The invention of the telegraph changed how information is traded and the contents of newspapers, the invention of the TV changed politics, and so on. The medium shapes the message and induces behaviours from us. We never thought about wanting to promt chatgpt, or watch people doing sports on a…

>The medium shapes the message and induces behaviours from us. Basically the Homo Sapiens history is the history of making and using tools. That is for example how we got the hands we've got, and our social organization was shaped by agriculture and later by the mass production and now more and more by information technology with AI becoming the major part of it. >I am also afraid that it will create a worse future t…

But doesn't this argument presume that every technology must be adopted with as much zeal as possible. That every tool is good for the future of human race. Should we not question the technologies that we so readily adopt? I'm not against AI as a whole, and as Torvalds said, "genie is out of the bottle now", but does this mean that any effort to question or regulate technology translates to "primitivism", or is it just pragmatic to do so?

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#35

Post by [deleted] »

bawolff wrote: post #14

Academics seem to like saying that considering any tool or technology to be value neutral, is naive. And sure, technology choices have plenty of second order effects. Stopping any analysis at just how you are directly using the tool is probably insufficient. At the same time, i still think that is part of how we use a tool. Society's choices about a tool (or even the choice to ban a tool) is still a part of how we us…

[deleted]

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#36

Post by jraph »

leecommamichael wrote: post #12

I'm of the opinion that it can be a tool if used as one, but that most people are currently interested in experimenting with various sci-fi visions. I don't ascribe any emotion or judgment to that, either. We should be doing the things we're excited to do if it doesn't cause too much harm. There are boring and reliable uses for these things, but then the wins are smaller, so they're not as worth talking about. We all…

Your comment focuses on usage. The post argues that we can't say "it's just a tool" because there are inherent traits that don't depend on usage.

> if it doesn't cause too much harm.

You touch something there: some of us think that simply using LLMs at all encourages developing / spreading this tech that inherently causes too much harm.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#37

Post by thih9 »

The “just a tool” argument was doomed from the start. Many tools are heavily regulated. Meds, drugs or guns are only a few of the most controversial examples.

I’m not saying we should treat AI as one of the above; I’m saying that regulation is common and can be beneficial.

Note that commenters here generally praise regulators when eg smartphones are banned at schools.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#38

Post by devindotcom »

otterley wrote: post #13

Attempting to command well-meaning people to “stop doing X” as though you’re some sort of dictatorial authority is not only rude, but it’s also ineffective. I get it, it’s a spicy hook, but the effect turns quickly against you. If you find yourself wanting to write like this, I recommend reconsidering. Persuade them instead.

you are yourself commanding a well-meaning person to stop doing X, like some dictatorial authority, with no attempt at persuasion. I recommend reading past the headline before making glib dismissals - spicy but it turns quickly against you.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#39

Post by bruce511 »

Quothling wrote: post #28

I think the environmental aspect is interesting and worth discussing. Around the offices the common joke is that people will "just burn down a piece of the rainforest" when they fire up their AI to solve some complex problem. Which certainly isn't what the world needs right now, and you can't have the "tool" without also the massive water consumption in a world where not everyone has access to clean water. Though as…

Neither the power, nor cooling, requirements are necessarily environmentally harmful. As always ymmv.

First water; there are plenty of places on the planet where water is bountiful. If you site a data center well (say on a big lake in a rainfall area) then water is not an issue. An "using" water in this way doesn't affect water scarce areas.

Equally lots of electricity can be generated in environmentally harmless ways. Solar, wind, hydro are all clean. (Hydro depending on how and where.)

Yes, in the long run, it may make sense to put data centers outside the US. Norway for example has no problem cooling things down. And hydro is abundant.

Plus, water "consumption" is also variable. Water is used for cooling, but is not necessarily "lost". Its "used" in the sense of "made use of" but may also then be "used for something else".

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#40

Post by DharmaPolice »

thih9 wrote: post #37

The “just a tool” argument was doomed from the start. Many tools are heavily regulated. Meds, drugs or guns are only a few of the most controversial examples. I’m not saying we should treat AI as one of the above; I’m saying that regulation is common and can be beneficial. Note that commenters here generally praise regulators when eg smartphones are banned at schools.

I don't think "just a tool" is necessarily in opposition to regulation.
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