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Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

ramones.dev

271–280 of 307 posts

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#271
I've felt motivated to dump a bunch of personal stuff here after reading this. I know this isn't the best way to deal with things and it's not interesting reading for most people, but putting it in the open anonymously would help me a bit.

I have similar problems with mental health. I don't think I have as much trouble with the autism and ADD aspects. I can definitely focus on a single task for long periods when motivated. Although I do have communication issues due to depression and social anxiety, and low self-esteem around my job performance (and really in general).

I didn't know what to do once I finished high school. I got into software development because I was bouncing around university degrees and ended up doing a programming course. I found it more interesting and easier than any of the other subjects I had done, and decided it was a sensible idea to make it a career. I remember thinking I was good at it because I often did better than my peers in those classes. I know now that wasn't as strong an indicator as I thought it was, as the majority of those people probably had their own subjects they found easy and interesting. I read Timequake recently and the chapter about meeting someone that "cuts you a new asshole" stood out to me. The first time that happened to me was my industry internship, where they weren't shy about saying I didn't know as much as I thought I did.

I got a job and worked really hard in the first few years trying to prove myself. I was very productive and made a few things that impressed people. And then a better engineer came along and, rightfully, poked a lot of holes in the work I had done. And this better engineer eventually started getting the more interesting work and opportunities and my motivation just kind of died away. I'm still here almost a decade later. It's impossible to be fired where I am so long as you do the bare minimum, which is a blessing and a curse. I've gone for a few other jobs over the years but chickened out when I got an offer because I'm afraid of going somewhere where I can be fired for poor performance, worried that I wouldn't find that motivation again.

My work now is maintenance and easy tasks. I avoid trying to do anything new or bring forward ideas because I made so many mistakes that it became humiliating. I think a healthy person in my situation would take the opportunity to learn from their betters and be motivated to improve, but I feel like a failure. I've isolated myself and work remotely because I've never done well socially and feel like I'm a bad fit for the office and the culture. The isolation compounds things as you end up forgotten, and so much nuance is lost in communication which leads to misreading things and becoming easily offended.

I know that I'm depressed and need to get help. I should start with therapy. I've tried it before but never found a good therapist. I should probably also try medication, but that scares me. I went through the ringer with psychiatrists when I was a teenager, got a bipolar diagnosis. I tried a lot of medications and remember not feeling improvement at all, just being miserable and dealing with weird side effects. I need to try again though. Despite my issues I've still ended up with a wonderful relationship and a small amount of friends who are very good people. But I can feel I am getting worse and my mental health is a threat to the good things I have. I would really like to improve my mental health and find a different career, while I still have time to do it. In Timequake, in regards to the cutting of the new asshole, Vonnegut said people should aspire to do what's natural and interesting to them. Unfortunately I don't know what that is yet, but I know I need to sort my shit out before I can start pursuing it.

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We won't need many software developers in another few years time anyway. Cooks are nowhere close to being replaced by technology.

The French have ridiculously good microwave food, but you still need someone/something to take it out and serve it to people.

Literally the only thing a microwave can do is heat water.

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the point is that not everyone is cut out to be an engineer. If you find yourself being depressed as an engineer, one possibility is that it's really not the job for you. Not everyone is capable of being an engineer, and being prone to emotional disregulation is probably a good indicator. Not to say you can't muddle through, but the original post was saying that you should at least ask yourself if you'd be happie…

This is ableism.

[dead]

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#274
My son has ADHD and I never knew what it meant but this year I made him get coaching for it and I made him get meds. He was living at home for free rent and the condition of staying was to address this. My experience is that getting treatment for this condition helped him a lot. The coach really helped, the meds really helped. He is full of zest for the work that lies ahead. He's off on his own now and while I think he'll have stumbles it's basically very positive.

One thing about ADHD coaching. The coach is a consistent person who helps frame a positive attitude with agency and skills and this takes you away from negative self talk. It's good. I think ADHD folks need this positive support.

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#275
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turns out I have ADHD You just magically found this out when the Mental Health Diagnosis Fairy visited you one night? You spent thousands of dollars for a neuropsych evaluation where the result was 40% reality, 40% chance, and 20% how the evaluator was feeling that day? You self-diagnosed by reading Reddit threads? You somehow magically found the one psychiatrist who is willing to talk about ADHD without immediatel…

No, I actually like this reply, because it's true in its essentials. You can find someone to tell you what you want to hear, but it's not going to pay the rent. And actual help needs to come from within, and no one has a magic wand or a one-weird-trick to actually help you. In the meantime, you have to pay the rent. Work sucks to varying degrees, and we all need coping mechanisms. Waving a flag with some acronym is n…

> And actual help needs to come from within, and no one has a magic wand or a one-weird-trick to actually help you

What if your problem is "your body does not manufacture neurotransmitters in the correct ratios"

> Find coping mechanisms

What if the coping mechanism is doctor prescribed medications?

There's a bunch of arguments in this thread that sound a lot like "you don't need cochlear implants to hear if you're deaf, just listen harder" to me

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#276

> My goals for the end of 2027 are as follows: > Stop making stupid mistakes. I want to be able to finish a task fully without missing or skipping a step. One way to do this is to make a plan for everything you do, and only do that thing. Nothing else. If you are neurodivergent or have other things influencing you mentally, you are _NOT_ going to snap out of it. You are not going to just build a better planning syste…

Yeah, HN is a terrible place to come for life advice. It's the blind leading the blind around here. It's even worse, because there are so many confidently wrong (and smart) people who will jump at the chance to write you a novel about how to fix yourself.

This place should only be used for keeping tabs on new tech. For anything else, go touch grass/talk to people IRL.

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is contingent on actually believing in the religion, no? You're there to learn. It's called Bible study for a reason. When I came back to church after 10 years as an avowed agnostic/atheist I didn't believe. I did listen and pay attention a lot better than I did as a child. Listening with an open mind and an unhardened heart make a difference. There are different types of churches too. In my experience most "m…

> You're there to learn. Other perhaps, but I am not. I would be there for the social aspects only. Also, what is there to study? I am sincerely asking. The text in the book is, if I may use a tautology, the text in the book. Anything else other than the literal text is merely interpretation, which becomes a debate in and of itself. I have also learned there are some questions one must never ask. Any truly deep quest…

> Also, what is there to study? I am sincerely asking. The text in the book is, if I may use a tautology, the text in the book.

Quite a bit and it's much more interesting than I imagined! The amount of interconnection and reference across thousands of years of text is fascinating. The historical aspects and context alone got my interest when I first started attending again. The preacher at the church where I first started back was very good at framing lessons from the history of the time, putting the events in the context of the day. A lot of that context comes from history outside of the Bible itself, from the work of many historians at archaeologists working to piece together history.

One time, we were reviewing a lesson that talked about this bronze snake that Moses put on a pole that people could look to in order to be healed from poison. I thought that sounded like an familiar visual...a snake on a pole for healing so I went and looked it up. A later story references a King who had the bronze snake destroyed because the people had begun worshiping it as an idol. That was 800 years later. 800 years is a long time especially when you put the entirety of US history being 250 years for perspective.

Went down a huge rabbit hole. The symbol used for medicine, the Rod of Asclepius from Greek mythology is actually predated by this story by about 1,000 years but it sounded so familiar I kept researching to see if they were connected. It turns out the Jewish tribes in Israel had a tribe of traders on the Mediterranean Sea called the Tribe of Dan. They made harbor on Cyprus and traded all the way to Athens and beyond.

This made me curious about other potential influences on Greek mythology like this so I got curious and decided to look up the most obvious one: Samson and Hercules (Heracles to the Greeks, Hercules is Romanized). It turns out Samson was from...the Tribe of Dan. The Greek's called these Jewish traders, "Haroclim" the Hebrew word for merchant. What is the likelyhood that Jewish traders telling stories about a man from their tribe being granted incredible strength by God evolving to influence the story of Hercules?

So I kept investigating the origins of Hercules. It turns out, I was in good company because Aristotle also investigated his origins. Aristotle traced the origins to Argos on the island of...Cyprus.

10 years ago people found...an ancient mosaic of Hercules...on Cyprus.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-15/rare-roman-mosaic-unc...

All that was from about 2-4 verses. I found it deeply interesting.

If you like history at all, just understanding the context of the time periods around any of the stories adds to it tremendously.

> my experiences, one must dare not question it

I suppose that depends on the church and maybe the question? I don't know what was asked. The Bible is probably the most studied text in the world and if you do have questions, there are a lot of well studied answers out there. I was always very open about my own questions and found people who were genuinely interested in helping me to find answers, particularly the teachers. Those who aren't teachers probably just don't know how to answer appropriately. Churches are filled with a lot of people who have variety in their study, faith and experience. Learning not to assume everybody else had the same level of knowledge was a trap I had to get myself out of.

I asked enough questions and participated in enough lessons that I was eventually asked to teach a few. I had to teach a lesson about alcohol in an adult Sunday school class in a Baptist church! And I didn't teach what I was supposed to because the Baptist view and what the Bible actually says are two different things. I talked to other teachers about it and they were completely okay with it while also challenging me on some things, which gave me a greater understanding. The Bible itself talks about moderation. Not drinking too much. Baptists emphasize abstaining entirely. This bothered me greatly because, as far as I can tell, it's a man-made rule attempting to be stricter than the Bible itself. Jesus first miracle was turning water to wine after all.

That's where speaking to another teacher made an impact on me because he explained the reason. "Yes, you can moderate," he said "but the Paul says in Romans 14:13-23 that we should not cause another to stumble in their faith and specifically talks about food and wine. While you may be able to moderate, not everyone can. Baptists advocate for abstaining in an effort to help prevent others from stumbling."

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2014%3A1...

That changed the way I viewed everything. I taught the lesson and highlighted the perspective.

> But those people probably truly believe, unlike me. Thus, I might as well stay home at that point.

I was just trying to showcase the option to try in a low pressure situation. There will always be opportunities to talk, but for somebody curious and introverted this type of option makes it easier. It can be harder to walk into a smaller church where new people will stand out more if you're more introverted.

> We must have wildly different experiences

Every church is different. Baptist churches in particular all have their own different constitutions. Methodist, Episcopal, Catholic and some others are much more standardized. There are over 1,500 different denominations and many independent churches. IMO this variety is a feature, not a bug.

> However, there is absolutely a reason to fake it.

I get that. To be completely honest, I initially did the same thing. I went because it was important to my wife and having grown up around church my entire life I felt like I knew what to say to fit in. Eventually that changed as God started working on me.

God saved me at the lowest point of my life about 18 years ago when I was struggling with so much anger that I didn't even know I was capable of. It went on for 2 years. I tried to move on, to get over it. Nothing helped. Nothing would make me whole. It gave me chest pains. My wife asked me if I had asked God for help and at the time, I had not because I didn't believe it would make a difference. I bowed my head, closed my eyes and said, "God, please help me forgive." That night He took the anger and the pain away in a moment that I will never forget. He changed my life. I didn't do anything to deserve it. I have felt obligated to share my experience, and more, ever since.

I hope some of this helps you or anyone else reading it.

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Now to be "that asshole" why unhoused instead of homeless? @dang, flagging. HN standards are basic civility, starting a comment with "I'll be an asshole" is clearly creating a pretext for violating HN standards. I mean, "unhoused" is considered a more polite term among the people I work with, it just basic politeness, there is no other distinction I know about. I don't feel a need to respond to the rest of your argum…

> I mean, "unhoused" is considered a more polite term among the people I work with, it just basic politeness, there is no other distinction I know about.

I was under the [mistaken?] impression the inverse was true. Or that neither had a significant preference, do you have any cite, or is this experience? Because I've heard from 2 different people no one they talked to cares, I've never bothered to try to verify and was happy to default to the single point I had (paramedic in SF), where I was explicitly told, the differentiator between the two wasn't based in reality. I assume you can understand how what I was told conflicts with your reality, and why I might also be confused?

> HN standards are basic civility, starting a comment with "I'll be an asshole" is clearly creating a pretext for violating HN standards.

Do you feel that my comment was actually in bad faith? Or are you just unhappy with the words I picked to express my question and confusion? I prefixed it with what I thought would be the context for, "I understand this question makes people angry, and I don't understand why", but that's a lot less interesting way to ask that question, and uninteresting questions get ignored. Any thoughts or suggestions for what I should have done different, other than pick different words I mean? (Ideally a suggestion that doesn't get ignored?)

> though I'll say they put a lie to your initial congratulations and are only tangentially related to the topic at hand

I was completely unable to parse this, thought I might just be too stupid, any help?

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The French have ridiculously good microwave food, but you still need someone/something to take it out and serve it to people.

Literally the only thing a microwave can do is heat water.

Water does tend to be in everything though, so that's not like a huge gotcha.

Re: Prioritize mental health, and why communication is so important

#280
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HN comments are _NOT_ going to help debugging your mental state. Nice paradox you've created there. > People here have trouble agreeing on engineering, product and business practices they specialise in. They are _NOT_ going to guide you in the right direction on mental health topics. I don't know that that follows logically. Whatever people they might reach out to in the real world -- be they friends, relatives, th…

Ooh, slick rhetorical moves you just executed. You couched your comment in the jargon of formal logic, and in doing so situated the parent under a convenient ad-hoc pseudo-formalization where you could paint them a raving illogical, thereby dismissing most of what they wrote through low-effort counterexamples. Mathematical certainty on your side, you make a chivalrous concession to the parent, reinforcing your noble-…

I actually love this comment. I feel seen. Thank you. I am prone to a sort of grandstanding that can elicit such responses, which I believe to actually have a similar philosophical aim as mine (and are perhaps subject to similar dramatic flaws?). I do stand by the sentiment I expressed though.

I do think it does undermine one's point to bemoan the efficacy of HN comments relating to mental health, while making a comment on HN attempting to speak on mental health. Either don't do it, or accept that you believe it can have value.

Your interpretation of their statement is incredibly nuanced. Language matters. Tone matters. Confusion, misinterpretation and miscommunication are the defaults. You certainly understand the importance of endeavoring to express yourself clearly and precisely.

I didn't infer the "beware of harsh self-talk" angle, I was too caught up on their comment actually embodying that approach, which I commented on. Based on the surrounding context I got more of a "HN is dumb because they debate about super nuanced technical stuff" vibe. (Also see sp1nningaway's comment for another completely different interpretation).

I stand by the sentiment that writing a blog post about your mental health and posting it on HN is a totally valid and respectable strategy and I would argue it's had good results even if it's not a "solved problem" and they should still seek other avenues to understanding as well.

P.S. "trivial albeit obnoxious" is an interesting construction I'm still trying to wrap my head around.

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