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Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

neomindlabs.com

171–180 of 227 posts

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#171
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're too easily conflating parameter count with capability. That Bonsai 27B you're running is at 2-bit quantization. Is it really better than the best 10-18B models?

No. But do you need to run every small problem through a 10B-30B model? We're smashing ants with hammers most of the time. We're asking frontier Opus/Fable models to classify text and build frontend code. Once we start dissecting these problems into smaller discreet tasks and having the big reasoning models do the tough stuff, we suddenly have an economical system. Not for the company hoping for a big IPO, but for th…

I do about 10 google search queries for every 1 opus/gpt prompt. For google, I don't actually open pages anymore 9 out 10 times; I rely on the AI summary. It's fast and accurate; the trick is that you learn where the boundary is of what you can ask it. Querying information the small model is great at.

Then there might be slow, batch tasks. I can see myself getting 1T of slow RAM one day (in a few years?) and having a slow onsite GLM5.2 doing batch jobs that would be wasteful of my subscription limits, plus sensitive but boring things, such as bookeeping and general admin.

I'd like to to read all my email and al quarterly reporting. But that would have to be a good local model, probably a model simmilar to whatever google search uses, which seems just correct unless you throw serious challenges at it.

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#172
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hey, I’m the author. That box has 384gb, but loading the model “only” uses about 80gb.

any reason you went with q8 over q4? I'm wondering if q4 would run noticeably faster or not.

I think I was just following along with the previous post about running Gemma on a Xeon. Next I’m going to see which model can give the highest tokens/sec

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#173
post #7

Here's my report running several different models on a dual Xeon with 256 GB of DDR4 and no GPU. https://gist.github.com/hparadiz/f3596d00a62d8ebb2dadcc46ee5...

Great speeds. So a small model on a lot of slow ram is fast. Now I wonder how larger models run on that thing.

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fast if you want to automate things that run independently or overnight. It's slow if you want to iterate code together with it.

If you were iterating on code with a human partner, how fast would they write? Like, obviously faster is better and the entire point of computers is to do things faster, but I find it kind of surprising how many people consider 9 tokens per second—heck, even much less than that—to be unusably slow. It's still automating a class of task that virtually no one before 2022 was able to automate, and it's faster than basic…

This isn't just measuring the speed of tokens that are written to a file (code). Your human partner is thinking a lot faster than 5 tok/s.

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#175

A dual Xeon of this era is probably pulling 300W or more when loaded. At national average electricity prices, that’s $1.35 per day. More during the summer if you have to cool the space. If you run it 24/7 and ignore prompt processing time (not a good assumption at all) it would get around 400,000 tokens in a day. That’s about $0.30 per million output tokens. Coincidentally, that’s the same price for this model on Ope…

It is like crypto currency - for most people more cost effective to buy than mine due to power prices.

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#176

A dual Xeon of this era is probably pulling 300W or more when loaded. At national average electricity prices, that’s $1.35 per day. More during the summer if you have to cool the space. If you run it 24/7 and ignore prompt processing time (not a good assumption at all) it would get around 400,000 tokens in a day. That’s about $0.30 per million output tokens. Coincidentally, that’s the same price for this model on Ope…

It gets better in the cooler months when heating is running in a home :)

Sort of - heat pump could be 2x to 3x more efficient. Heat pumps cool outside air down to get some of the energy for heating inside.

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because for the company that will actually do it, their biggest customers aren’t data centers they are iPhone owners.

First off the math doesn’t math. Datacenters are willing to pay $50k for a single high end GPU. If you have unlimited capacity, yeah sell millions for $100 a pop or $10 a pop or whatever the bom cost of a phone GPU would be - but if you have limited capacity, you’re gonna sell all of that to the customer who is willing to pay the most PER UNIT. Second off, this doesn’t work from a power consumption standpoint. When I…

There is ton of room for improvement "down there".

* Software inference optimizations

* Heavy quantization

* Chips with hardcoded transformer architecture

* Much cheaper HBM

* Much sparser models - 1T total with ~1-10B active params e.g.

* Not to mention - 2 years of today's frontier models writing RTL and kernels at superhuman levels.

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you've used a model that runs at hundreds of TPS, it's hard to go back. Everything completes so quickly that you can iterate without breaking out of flow state. My biggest gripe with slow (<50tps) LLMs is that I've lost all the mental context I built up by the time it's done, which makes it extremely difficult to explore or iterate on solutions.

Completely agree. Slow but smart models (Fable, Sol, GLM5.2 etc) are great, but they leave me with zero mental model of the code that's been written. Most of the time my mind wanders off and I go check social media or fire off a prompt for some other random project, it's a big productivity drain. Working with models that are super fast, but slightly dumber (like mimo-v2.5-pro-ultraspeed) is amazing, I feel like I'm s…

Glad to see another UltraSpeed addict here. I really hope they keep it around.

Re: Running Gemma 4 26B at 5 tokens/sec on a 13-year-old Xeon with no GPU

#180
post #138
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably won't have to wait that long. Prism released Bonsai 27B ( https://huggingface.co/prism-ml/Ternary-Bonsai-27B-mlx-2bit ) as a ternary model a few days ago, its just ~7GB and runs at 44+ t/sec on an m4 max laptop. That's already in the ballpark of active parameter count of most 200B+ models, so we will get a model like this whenever Prism feels like releasing one. It is debatable if we will actually need that…

We're too easily conflating parameter count with capability. That Bonsai 27B you're running is at 2-bit quantization. Is it really better than the best 10-18B models?

There’s a good eval floating around somewhere and tl;dr they’re awesome but the benchmarks are cooked, you’re better off with Qwen 8B Q4 than 27B 1b or ternary.

Thanks for being skeptical, I maintain a llama.cpp-based client and it’s frustrating how high expectations are for local AI bc the median effort level means people mostly assemble their expectations and understanding via marketing soundbites

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