Why We Get Fat • Hacker News Board

Re: Why We Get Fat

#21

Post by quotemstr » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:15 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #11

This is the best article I've read on dieting: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/08/27/th... IMO, if you eat fewer calories than you expend, you'll lose weight. BUT I do think that you can eat more calories than you expend and still lose weight. Likewise, the amount of weight one loses/gains eating the same number of calories and expending the same number is variable based on the actual person and f…

> BUT I do think that you can eat more calories than you expend and still lose weight.

Then where does the energy go? The only way you can eat less than you expend and still lose weight is to not adsorb some of what you eat, and doing that, while possible with laxatives use, bulimia, and certain drugs, tends to have messy consequences.

Re: Why We Get Fat

#22

Post by JPKab » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:20 PM UTC

lambda wrote: post #12

rb2k_ wrote: post #4

While this is highly non scientific and very subjective, my personal experience is pretty much exactly mirroring the article. A high-fat, low-carb diet makes it easy to lose weight and and fat at the same time. While running/pullups/... help with muscle definition and make me feel healthy in general, the weight loss for me seems to be 80% related to the food I eat. Here are the graphs: http://i.imgur.com/y0CJJ.png I…

I fell like there's an awful lot of confirmation bias in people's reports of how well low-carb diets work, just like there was back when low-fat diets were the big fad. In general, any deliberate change in your diet is likely to lead to results, at least in the short term, as you're paying that much more attention to what you're eating. This is similar to the strength of the placebo effect in medical studies; one rea…

"with fats and proteins; a lot of people eat more meat as a result. Eating a lot of meat can increase your chances of getting certain kinds of cancer. I've seen studies that showed that in the long run, low-carb and low-calorie diets had about the same effects for weight loss, but the low-carb dieters were at a slightly higher risk for cancer due to the extra meat they ate."

I have yet to see a true scientific study that attributes cancer to high meat intake. The "studies" that I've seen which attribute high meat intake to cancer are observational in nature, following tens of thousands of people over 30 years, and pretending that the people who ate lots of red meat in the 70's and 80's have the same lifestyles as those who listened to doctors and ate more salads and fish. The kind of person who ate lots of red meat in the 80's was the same kind of person who probably ignored all sorts of medical advice. This inability to control for other variables is why observational studies are horrible. I'm a huge coffee drinker, but I'm not stupid enough to fall for the observational studies which link coffee consumption to living longer. All too often, the people who DON'T drink coffee DO drink soda, which is a simple example of how these ridiculous observational studies can be misinterpreted.

Re: Why We Get Fat

#23

Post by miked » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:24 PM UTC

>> Rather than jumping on the low-carb bandwagon before his ideas are properly tested, the precautionary principle suggests that it might be more reasonable to follow a moderate diet like the Mediterranean diet (or to follow Michael Pollan‘s stunningly simple advice to “Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.”), to limit “empty calories” from simple carbohydrates like sugar, to eat a variety of vegetables and fruits, to choose low calorie density foods that are more filling, to limit meat intake, to limit salt, and to keep looking for behavioral and environmental ways to change our calories-in/calories-out balance.

Ummm, why does the precautionary principle state that we should avoid Diet X (Mediterranean Inuit, Vegetarian,...), rather than Diet Y?

Doesn't the precautionary principle really say that nothing should ever change, since we can always gather more data to further remove risk? (Except, of course, the things the speaker really wants to change, in which case the principle won't be invoked.)

Re: Why We Get Fat

#24

Post by tgrowaway » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:29 PM UTC

hunvreus wrote: post #20

Too many times have physicians, from my point of view, fall short of common agreement with regards to my health, especially when it comes to nutrition. I tend to be skeptical of their opinion on the matter, more even so since I switched to a paleo diet and literally dropped the weight that I was supposed to be "genetically" stuck with. So have several of my friends around me. I doubt the answer is as easy as some wou…

Thing is , we don't know if that is due to paleo or due to being mindful of our eating and thus not overeating. So in a way, the diet can mask what really makes you lose weights, I.e. eating less and working out (if you do)

I think the more popular diets stick around because they are balanced enough to not make you sick and complex enough to make you watch how much you eat. The rest is due to personal preferences.

Re: Why We Get Fat

#25

Post by nathos » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:29 PM UTC

super_mario wrote: post #14

I challenge the author to load himself on steak and saturated fats and no carbs and come race me 100 miles on a road bike. I burn in excess of 4000 Calories on a 80 mile bike ride. That's a kilogram of rice on a single ride. And honestly I find it incredibly hard to eat enough just to satisfy the energy requirements of racing. Not eating carbs and attempting an endurance race event is just suicidal and guaranteed way…

Compared to the average person, you're a bit of an outlier. If you're not racing 100 miles, why would you consume those carbs?

If you've read Taubes' writing, he doesn't say to eliminate all carbs. He does, however, demonize "white" carbs that have become a staple of the modern western diet.

Even Tim Ferriss' "slow-carb diet" features legumes heavily, but eliminates sweets, bread, and other high-glycemic calorie sources.

Re: Why We Get Fat

#26

Post by monochromatic » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:32 PM UTC

paul_f wrote: post #13

Weight equals calories in minus calories out. This ridiculously flawed concept is why people get fat. It seems plausible. It's how our bank account works. Sounds like science. But is wrong. And easy to debunk: Have you ever sat on a toilet?

"Calories out" includes what goes into the toilet.

Re: Why We Get Fat

#27

Post by hunvreus » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:36 PM UTC

tgrowaway wrote: post #24

hunvreus wrote: post #20

Too many times have physicians, from my point of view, fall short of common agreement with regards to my health, especially when it comes to nutrition. I tend to be skeptical of their opinion on the matter, more even so since I switched to a paleo diet and literally dropped the weight that I was supposed to be "genetically" stuck with. So have several of my friends around me. I doubt the answer is as easy as some wou…

Thing is , we don't know if that is due to paleo or due to being mindful of our eating and thus not overeating. So in a way, the diet can mask what really makes you lose weights, I.e. eating less and working out (if you do) I think the more popular diets stick around because they are balanced enough to not make you sick and complex enough to make you watch how much you eat. The rest is due to personal preferences.

I was a vegetarian for 3 years before that and have been very careful with my diet for all of my adult life. I've cooked most of my meals in the past 15 years and have felt a striking contrast in health since I cut carb out of my diet, including weight loss.

Re: Why We Get Fat

#28

Post by shortandsweaty » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:39 PM UTC

hunvreus wrote: post #20

Too many times have physicians, from my point of view, fall short of common agreement with regards to my health, especially when it comes to nutrition. I tend to be skeptical of their opinion on the matter, more even so since I switched to a paleo diet and literally dropped the weight that I was supposed to be "genetically" stuck with. So have several of my friends around me. I doubt the answer is as easy as some wou…

Doctor here. I agree with you about being skeptical of physicians' nutritional advice; we generally aren't nutrition experts and internists, especially, are jaded by the vast number of hospitalized patients we see who have simply abused their bodies with food and drink for decades.

That said, you echo an argument that's as useless as me telling patients "calories in What I tell my fat patients who are starting out is this (and I use these exact words): eat the same shit you're eating now, just cut it in half. For educated, motivated people who aren't in denial (which I'm convinced represents < 10% of my patients), we have a more in-depth discussion about dieting ideas that might specifically work for them.

Re: Why We Get Fat

#29

Post by munger » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:40 PM UTC

Gotta love any explanation and suggested resolution for being overweight and wanting to lose it that doesn't mention exercise.

If you exercise enough, your diet doesn't have to be so strict, and you're way more likely to actually lose weight and feel good. Some rough guidelines of eating higher quality foods helps, but certainly exercise or lack of it is much more the root cause of so many weight/health related issues.

Most of the time it's very simple. Basic healthy eating and exercise. The problem has always been people don't want to exercise, and there are consequences to that.

Re: Why We Get Fat

#30

Post by elteto » Sat, Dec 08, 2012, 10:40 PM UTC

polyfractal wrote: post #3

Tangentially, I don't understand why so many articles/diets get written about weight loss. At the end of the day, everything boils down to "eat fewer calories than you expend". Given enough time, this regimen will reduce your weight. Period. End of story. Why must people continually try to create new weight-loss fads all the time?

It is not as simple as doing some backhand checkbook balancing of the calories. Metabolic pathways are not the same for every single individual.