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SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

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Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#541

Post by watwut »

tavavex wrote: post #282
inigyou wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True capitalism has never been tried. This right now is crony capitalism.

We're living under true capitalism right now. Look at the incentives. I don't see how we could have progressed to anything besides this, this is the natural outcome of the system in place. American libertarians often imagine some kind of wonderland capitalism where everyone agrees to play by the rules that aren't enforced by anyone. To my knowledge this has never existed as a long-term equilibrium and it can't exist.…

The answer is that most libertarians see both 1.) and 2.) as a good thing they want to achieve. They imagine themselves benefiting as a high profile worker of that monopoly or rule setting company.

Also, note how super ok and welcomming libertarians are toward racists or even fashists. They do dislike pro-democratic center groups, they hate democratic left.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#542

Post by [deleted] »

yobutdude wrote: post #522
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a minority of the total population ensuring their own lived experience is put above everyone else's That’s a new use of that term!

No it is not. Appeals to equality of condition have existed for centuries. Among them are that term used verbatim. Ignored the other points and redirected to the least salient. Will take it as acceptance you realized how silly your carrying water for people who don't know or care you exist is. Age of account makes it clear you need the social system to remain solvent as you're likely rich on paper. Nothing more.

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#543

Post by JumpCrisscross »

yobutdude wrote: post #522
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a minority of the total population ensuring their own lived experience is put above everyone else's That’s a new use of that term!

No it is not. Appeals to equality of condition have existed for centuries. Among them are that term used verbatim. Ignored the other points and redirected to the least salient. Will take it as acceptance you realized how silly your carrying water for people who don't know or care you exist is. Age of account makes it clear you need the social system to remain solvent as you're likely rich on paper. Nothing more.

> Ignored the other points

In this comment [1]? Seriously, what salient points were you trying to make?

Nobody is arguing anything is fairly valued. That's your straw man. There's a bit ironically complaining about innumeracy in a series of comments with zero numbers. Then a general appeal to Twitter tropes around sheeple and whatnot.

If anything, the quality of this comment thread sort of points to the quality of the argument for SpaceX being included in the Nasdaq 100 being corrupt. It's based on vibes and feels. Which is a good story–it's clearly convinced a bunch of people to watch another video, click on another ad.

> Age of account makes it clear you need the social system to remain solvent as you're likely rich on paper. Nothing more

...genuine question, how are you connecting that observation to that conclusion?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48925695

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#544

Post by Yizahi »

inigyou wrote: post #195
smallmancontrov wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting that whenever the incentives lead to bad places it isn't True Capitalism (tm).

True capitalism has never been tried. This right now is crony capitalism.

It had been though. Just search for Galt's Gulch, Chile 2012 :)

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#545

Post by keeda »

lurker919 wrote: post #443
lightedman wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every company you mentioned has made more progress in those spaces than anyone else" Lies. Waymo beats Tesla in FSD. Optimus is nothing while China has full fucking martial arts robots. It's 2026 where's that 2025 manned Mars mission? Where's that 2025 AGI promise (currently running itself in circles.) His solar roof tile idea was a bunk plan and any regular roofer could've told you that. China made a fucking electr…

I can't buy a Waymo right now. I can buy a Tesla though.

Yeah, but the topic of discussion is presumably FSD that actually works ;-)

And before people jump in to say "have you tried it, it works" yes I have a Tesla and FSD has tried to kill me multiple times already. Including jumping a damn red light after slowing down to a stop so I was absolutely unprepared to react.

Credit where it's due, it's a pretty nice car and even the self-driving technology is decent, despite being hobbled by Elon's nonsensical allergy to LIDAR or other sensors. But it is being marketed as "FSD" and it is very much not FSD, and I can't believe more is not being done to prevent the needless deaths that are inevitable because of this.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#546

Post by cyberjerkXX »

ceejayoz wrote: post #223
cyberjerkXX wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> It's crazy to believe that stopping the funding of US backed NGOs directly kills people. Why? Have US-backed NGOs never saved a single life with their spending? You can argue it's not worth the spending, perhaps, but you really can't argue that it's not happening somewhere. > This is a reason why the US is trillions in debt. This is a tiny, tiny, nearly invisible fraction of that reason.

"No Snowflake in an Avalanche Ever Feels Responsible" You're right - we need to cut more. We'll save more lives if the US government stops the rate at which it is currently spending. The interest on our debt is currently larger that our military budget. The government can sell bonds to cover some of this debt but when it doesn't have money to cover mature bonds it needs to sell more bonds at a higher interest rates. It makes the deficit worse. The fed will respond with printing more money causing inflation. Inflation hurts the middle and lower classes the most. You either make massive cuts, or burden your productive wealth creating classes with taxes. We have a massive SPENDING problem.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#547

Post by danielmarkbruce »

malfist wrote: post #537
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't making the case he isn't harmed. He was making the case that the effect isn't large. You don't appear to understand the claim itself, let alone the reasoning. Just because you don't understand the basics of the financial system, or the different indices, or the amount of money flowing into the funds that track each, it doesn't mean others don't. The impact if it had been included in the S&P500 would have be…

Your honor, I only murdered one person, that effect size isn't large, there's 9 billion people on earth. You should dismiss this case.

Classic apples-to-peanuts comparison

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#548

Post by ceejayoz »

cyberjerkXX wrote: post #546
ceejayoz wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crazy to believe that stopping the funding of US backed NGOs directly kills people. Why? Have US-backed NGOs never saved a single life with their spending? You can argue it's not worth the spending, perhaps, but you really can't argue that it's not happening somewhere. > This is a reason why the US is trillions in debt. This is a tiny, tiny, nearly invisible fraction of that reason.

"No Snowflake in an Avalanche Ever Feels Responsible" You're right - we need to cut more. We'll save more lives if the US government stops the rate at which it is currently spending. The interest on our debt is currently larger that our military budget. The government can sell bonds to cover some of this debt but when it doesn't have money to cover mature bonds it needs to sell more bonds at a higher interest rates.…

> "No Snowflake in an Avalanche Ever Feels Responsible"

You're trying to prevent the avalanche with a hair dryer that isn't even aimed at the snow.

> We have a massive SPENDING problem.

Guess what we'll have if we let China become the hegemon by removing all our international soft power initiatives?

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#549

Post by tyre »

notahacker wrote: post #252
inigyou wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I need to be able to short bananas for the market to settle on the price of a banana?

If you're confident the price of bananas will fall tomorrow you absolutely can sign a contract to deliver bananas next week at the current price and then buy them when the price drops...

My point is that no one is trying to short SpaceX as a hedge. It’s simply gambling.

I agree that hedging is real and useful. The comment I’m replying to isn’t trying to do that.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#550

Post by danny_codes »

crimsonspy wrote: post #80
xutopia wrote: post #61

I can't comprehend for the life of me that people put their life savings in what Elon Musk is doing. Are people not seeing how he's lying about the future all the time? He said he aimed to have 5000 Optimus robots out by end of 2025, 50000 by 2026 and 10 times that in 2027. He promised in 2015 that full autonomous driving would arrive in 2 years and we aren't there yet 11 years later. He even said in 2016 that there…

He claimed that he would unearth billions of dollars of government fraud, only to lie about that too. Instead his team cut aid programs and have contributed to an estimated 700,000 deaths so far. https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-new-yorker-interview/the-...

I recall the Boyle video in this claimed the whole affair cost $100B or so and achieved nothing. So, typical Musk outcome.
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