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Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

thinkingmachines.ai

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Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#121

Post by suprjami »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #108
gkapur wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be but there are a host of companies going after open weights models: Arcee, Reflection, Llama (TBD on Meta's focus on closed-source versus open-source), etc. That said, the fine-tuning API + open weight model at least is a semblance of a viable business that could work so I will be curious about it. I'm not sure the synergy is fully there (why is someone with an open weights model privelaged to fine-tune it…

Do any of these even have match a year old Deepseek 3.1?

DS3 isn't even looked at anymore.

GLM-5.2 is the best in that class right now. It is competitive with current GPT/Claude/Gemini.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#122

Post by copperx »

KronisLV wrote: post #79
segmondy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DeepSeekV4 was a preview model, read the papers. It's not the final model. They released it to demonstrate architectural capabilities. They are still training and the model release is planned within the next month.

If they somehow make it approach Fable in capability, I’ll be quite surprised!

Not even GPT 5.6 approaches it, why would DeepSeek with less investment?

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#124

Post by NortySpock »

MikeTheGreat wrote: post #117
tyre wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they're constantly hemorrhaging their most valuable clients? Tech history is littered with the corpses of "open source but we sell hosting" services. Models are so expensive to train, you can't be losing the big clients once they get super profitable.

This is genuine, noob question: how is this different from AWS? I get that they're in very different businesses, but for both don't they have the issue that once a client gets big enough the client might decide to move the services in-house? Based on how much of the internet went down when that AWS data center crashed the answer is clearly "No" for AWS. Is that because of physical, real-world infrastructure? Are ther…

Data is heavy.

I would say "it's risky and requires a lot of labor to migrate without corruption, loss of data" and also minimizing downtime. Sure anyone can run pg_backup, but can you do it across 90 databases? Can you do it live? Can you coordinate rollout of the process, cutover, and monitor for failure? What's the cost of egress for this? Is the team your A-team or the B-team? Can you trust this to the B-team? Is it worth having this team spend all this time on a migration rather than, say, getting something new set up, or optimizing performance on an existing system?

I'm a database guy, but the same migration argument is presumably also extra work for (say) blob storage, networking, etc.

Since LLMs are stateless by their current implementation, switching to "the same open-weight model running in a different datacenter run by a different vendor" is "just" switching the API endpoint. (If they are the exact same shape, it's fine, if they differ somehow, there's perhaps some work to do there, fixing things and monitoring for failures on switch-over)

There are several open APIs it seems and OpenRouter.ai is doing a fine job making a commodity out of models and datacenters.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#125

Post by whimsicalism »

paxys wrote: post #119
segmondy wrote: post #65

Very nice, multi modal, largest open weight model that supports audio. Would be interesting to see how good the audio capability is. If you want to run locally, checkout https://github.com/danielhanchen/llama.cpp/tree/add-inkling https://unsloth.ai/docs/models/inkling https://huggingface.co/unsloth/inkling-GGUF https://huggingface.co/unsloth/inkling-NVFP4 This supposedly is better than KimiK2.7, as much hype as GLM5.…

Not to mention - it is American. This is the first competitive non-Chinese open weights model since what, Llama 3?

nemotron

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#126

Post by codemog »

ls_stats wrote: post #2

America needs its own DeepSeek or Z.ai, a lot of people (myself included) root for open chinese models to win because they have no other choice. Thinking Machines might be it.

I’m trying to be charitable but your comment reads as “China bad” propaganda to me. Who cares that DeepSeek and Z.ai are Chinese companies?

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#127

Post by segmondy »

paxys wrote: post #119
segmondy wrote: post #65

Very nice, multi modal, largest open weight model that supports audio. Would be interesting to see how good the audio capability is. If you want to run locally, checkout https://github.com/danielhanchen/llama.cpp/tree/add-inkling https://unsloth.ai/docs/models/inkling https://huggingface.co/unsloth/inkling-GGUF https://huggingface.co/unsloth/inkling-NVFP4 This supposedly is better than KimiK2.7, as much hype as GLM5.…

Not to mention - it is American. This is the first competitive non-Chinese open weights model since what, Llama 3?

It's not the better model since Llama3. Trinity Large is American and quite decent, unfortunately tons of crazy good models have been out and it's harder to run locally at 400B. I think Arcee did a terrible job of promoting their model.

https://www.arcee.ai/blog/trinity-large

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#128

Post by nodja »

codemog wrote: post #126
ls_stats wrote: post #2

America needs its own DeepSeek or Z.ai, a lot of people (myself included) root for open chinese models to win because they have no other choice. Thinking Machines might be it.

I’m trying to be charitable but your comment reads as “China bad” propaganda to me. Who cares that DeepSeek and Z.ai are Chinese companies?

It doesn't matter until it does. If the chinese government decides that open weight model releases are no longer allowed, that's a lot of companies that can't release new models. Same with the US government, etc. Having diversity is important.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#129

Post by segmondy »

KronisLV wrote: post #79
segmondy wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DeepSeekV4 was a preview model, read the papers. It's not the final model. They released it to demonstrate architectural capabilities. They are still training and the model release is planned within the next month.

If they somehow make it approach Fable in capability, I’ll be quite surprised!

I haven't used Fable, but if the hype is to be believed then it's a jump in model capability. If so then I don't expect the next DeepSeekV4 version to match it. However, if the next DSV4 version get's the kind of jump 3.1 got over 3.0 or 4 got over 3.2, I'll be very happy with it. Progress is progress. We "can" run DSV4 locally, Fable is closed.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#130

Post by MattDamonSpace »

codemog wrote: post #126
ls_stats wrote: post #2

America needs its own DeepSeek or Z.ai, a lot of people (myself included) root for open chinese models to win because they have no other choice. Thinking Machines might be it.

I’m trying to be charitable but your comment reads as “China bad” propaganda to me. Who cares that DeepSeek and Z.ai are Chinese companies?

China’s got absolute control over its outputs. For America to have any guarantees around long-term availability of OW models, they need domestic production.

FWIW this is the same logic for China’s need for their own OW models

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