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FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

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Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#31

Post by matheusmoreira »

riedel wrote: post #8
matheusmoreira wrote: post #2

Pretty sad from the free software movement's perspectice. Look how little leverage GNU's got these days. Then again, trying to contribute to GNU wasn't exactly a positive experience. Maybe it's for the best.

I am not really sure if I can follow. FreeBSD despite its title never had something to do with Free Software. BSD has a different history and it's "own licence". Being more consistent in its licence is a good thing particularly in contrast to Linux FreeBSD is a full distribution with user land. I would even think that you can without much problem publish a GPL version of FreeBSD if you like. I think you might have to…

The point is GNU software used to be ubiquitous. Even people who were averse to the GPL would rather tolerate it than reinvent the software themselves. That's leverage.

Looks like that era is over.

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#32

Post by setopt »

sitzkrieg wrote: post #26
naturalmovement wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. As enshittification encroaches onto Linux the user base is moving the other way. To their benefit, I might add. With ZFS on root in FreeBSD it's a no-brainer. Linux is feeling more and more like a bunch of random tools thrown together as opposed to a complete OS designed to work as a whole.

linux userspace has always sucked ass

In what way? Do you have concrete examples?

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#33

Post by mrkeen »

rzerowan wrote: post #25
2lup382_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GPL and copyleft in general is getting less and less relevant as time goes on. Looking at GPL specifically it relies on scarcity. The reason companies would agree to the terms of the GPL in the 1980s, 90s, and even 00s was if you wanted a good compiler, parser, kernel, or library you had only so many choices. There might have been only a few thousand people in the world capable of writing a mature compiler su…

>I think GPL and copyleft in general is getting less and less relevant as time goes on. Looking at GPL specifically it relies on scarcity. The reason companies would agree to the terms of the GPL Therein is the great misunderstanding , the GPL was never written for 'companies' , it was and still is for the User. You, Me a $MEGACORP , sentinel islander - it does not matter the rights are granted to all equally to reus…

I think companies figured out how to get around the GPL by simply not distributing software.

The user has a right to know what software runs on their machine? Screw that, we'll keep all the software (and now user data too) on our side, and the user can throw rest calls over the fence.

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#34

Post by ZirconiumX »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #29
ksec wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pretty sad from the free software movement's perspectice. That somehow implies or suggest BSD is not free software.

It's not a suggestion, it's a fact. BSD is permissive open source software, not copyleft free software.

> [The FreeBSD license] is a lax, permissive non-copyleft free software license

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#FreeBSD

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#35

Post by matheusmoreira »

mrkeen wrote: post #33
rzerowan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think GPL and copyleft in general is getting less and less relevant as time goes on. Looking at GPL specifically it relies on scarcity. The reason companies would agree to the terms of the GPL Therein is the great misunderstanding , the GPL was never written for 'companies' , it was and still is for the User. You, Me a $MEGACORP , sentinel islander - it does not matter the rights are granted to all equally to reus…

I think companies figured out how to get around the GPL by simply not distributing software. The user has a right to know what software runs on their machine? Screw that, we'll keep all the software (and now user data too) on our side, and the user can throw rest calls over the fence.

AGPLv3 is the answer to that.

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#36

Post by matheusmoreira »

ZirconiumX wrote: post #34
matheusmoreira wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a suggestion, it's a fact. BSD is permissive open source software, not copyleft free software.

> [The FreeBSD license] is a lax, permissive non-copyleft free software license https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#FreeBSD

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....

> The terms “free software” and “open source” stand for almost the same range of programs.

> However, they say deeply different things about those programs, based on different values.

> The free software movement campaigns for freedom for the users of computing; it is a movement for freedom and justice.

> By contrast, the open source idea values mainly practical advantage and does not campaign for principles.

> This is why we do not agree with open source, and do not use that term.

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#37

Post by caminanteblanco »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #29
ksec wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pretty sad from the free software movement's perspectice. That somehow implies or suggest BSD is not free software.

It's not a suggestion, it's a fact. BSD is permissive open source software, not copyleft free software.

Copyleft has never been a hard requirement for free software. If anything I feel like it stands against the deeper philosophy of given no restrictions on usage to the end user. I understand that's not the RMS-take, but he's not the only voice in this community.

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#38

Post by ksec »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #36
ZirconiumX wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [The FreeBSD license] is a lax, permissive non-copyleft free software license https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#FreeBSD

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.... > The terms “free software” and “open source” stand for almost the same range of programs. > However, they say deeply different things about those programs, based on different values. > The free software movement campaigns for freedom for the users of computing; it is a movement for freedom and justice. > By contrast, the open source idea values mainly p…

It is great that you post and quoted this. In which I suggest you reread the page yourself. It make the case very clear.

There are literally 4 - 5 paragraphs on the whole thing with examples what is considered free software. Directly from RMS himself.

>Another misunderstanding of “open source” is the idea that it means “not using the GNU GPL.” This tends to accompany another misunderstanding that “free software” means “GPL-covered software.” These are both mistaken, since the GNU GPL qualifies as an open source license and most of the open source licenses qualify as free software licenses[1]. There are many free software licenses* aside from the GNU GPL. *

And in [1],

>Modified BSD license (#ModifiedBSD) This is the original BSD license, modified by removal of the advertising clause. It is a lax, permissive non-copyleft free software license, compatible with the GNU GPL.

>This license is sometimes referred to as the 3-clause BSD license.

I actually originally asked on what you were suggesting because the idea that BSD is not Free software died a more than decade ago. That is the whole reason why Stallman wrote the page and even mentioned Rust as an example. Along with issues came up from Tivo etc. I am surprised it is now rising up again.

[1] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#39

Post by einsteinx2 »

naturalmovement wrote: post #22
mikece wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, isn't the FreeBSD user base shrinking and its former users going to Linux?

No. As enshittification encroaches onto Linux the user base is moving the other way. To their benefit, I might add. With ZFS on root in FreeBSD it's a no-brainer. Linux is feeling more and more like a bunch of random tools thrown together as opposed to a complete OS designed to work as a whole.

> As enshittification encroaches onto Linux

This is a ridiculous stretch of the term

> With ZFS on root in FreeBSD it's a no-brainer.

ZFS works fine on root on Linux. I use it on multiple machines.

> Linux is feeling more and more like a bunch of random tools thrown together as opposed to a complete OS designed to work as a whole.

This has quite literally always been the case and seems intentional. Linux is the kernel only, others supply the userland of their choice (aka a Linux distribution).

Re: FreeBSD 16 Retires the Last of Its GPL Code from Its Base System

#40

Post by nine_k »

bigfishrunning wrote: post #5
mikece wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, isn't the FreeBSD user base shrinking and its former users going to Linux?

As a 25 year Linux user (for work and at home), I've been experimenting with FreeBSD in the last year or so and I've found its simplicity refreshing. Maybe I'm swimming against the current, but I'm sure there are dozens of us!

Try e.g. Void Linux, it's built by BSD-inclined people and is also refreshingly simpler than most big distros. (It's my daily driver for the last 8 years.)

But if you want tighter integration of userland and kernel, I suppose what RedHat is doing is closer to that. They pursue a non-Unix way though: an immutable distro, ideally only running systemd and podman in the userland, put everything into containers.

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