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DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

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Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#151

Post by m463 »

vitally3643 wrote: post #46
sigmoid10 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seriously addictive drugs being sold OTC Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances in existence and it is sold everywhere. If governments actually cared about addiction risk, a whole lot of things would have to disappear from normal stores.

You have to provide ID and be over 21 to purchase nicotine. You can't advertise nicotine products. You have to be licensed to sell nicotine products. Same for alcohol. Restrictions on who can buy, who can sell, and how you can advertise and market. These are not the same as some random pill from a gas station sold to anyone with cash with zero regulations, safety, restrictions, or even any requirement to tell you wha…

I find it interesting when traveling.

I remember traveling to mexico and being surprised.

Giant "Marlboro Man" billboards.

Television advertisements for hard alcohol.

but what was also funny was Coca-Cola ads always had something like "Siempre come frutas y verduras" (Always eat fruits and vegetables)

(nowadays mexican food labeling is even more specific, saying stuff like "excess calories" or "excess sugars" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_labeling_in_Mexico )

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#152

Post by pstuart »

cliglot wrote: post #115
pstuart wrote: post #114

Fuck the DEA -- they need to be abolished today . Then, fuck all the kratom vendors that absolutely irresponsibly market their products. I've used kratom for 10 years for pain management and it was my best option at the time. Drugs should not be illegal -- they should be regulated, for purity and for truth in advertising (in the case of kratom making it crystal clear that addiction is inevitable with regular constant…

> I've used kratom for 10 years for pain management and it was my best option at the time. Any weird side effects. My girlfriend and I tend to use Kratom for the mild stimulant effect. The worst is ever done for me is make me nauseous enough to vomit, but I live in a state trying to ban all kratom now and the discourse around it is full of anecdotes of people claiming withdrawals as bad as heroin. Now I’m not a big h…

I have side effects that are significant enough to warrant finding another avenue to address the pain. I knew what I was getting into, but chronic pain is a bitch and I'll do whatever I can to minimize it.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#153

Post by parineum »

gtowey wrote: post #145
parineum wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sugar is required for biology. I'm no more addicted to sugar than I am to water, air or just being alive.

I had a biology teacher who was fond of repeating " everything is toxic, it's just a matter of dosage" And it's true, you can die from water toxicity. Water and air are ubiquitous, so we've naturally evolved defenses against overdosing. Sugar has always been rare and valuable as a food source. In fact most organisms existence revolves around collecting enough chemical energy. It's only in the last 100 years that suga…

Your last sentence is non-sequitur.

The health implications of sugar consumption have no relationship to it being addictive (or not).

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#154

Post by pstuart »

Legend2440 wrote: post #53
sigmoid10 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seriously addictive drugs being sold OTC Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances in existence and it is sold everywhere. If governments actually cared about addiction risk, a whole lot of things would have to disappear from normal stores.

Governments have spent considerable effort on it, but it's tough to ban something as popular as tobacco or alcohol. Voters tend to get what they want, and a sizeable fraction of voters smoke or drink.

> Voters tend to get what they want

I wish that was true. In the case of tobacco and alcohol, there's enough monied interests to ensure it would never be illegal.

So this defines the classic simple argument about the issue: alcohol and tobacco are dangerous and other than a weird House episode, have no medical value, and yet society has decided that some dangerous drugs are ok, because the right people are making money from it.

Propaganda has effectively sold the War on Drugs as "protecting people", but it's never been about that -- it's about enabling tools of oppression.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#155

Post by varenc »

Krutonium wrote: post #3

Good, Kratom (as sold in products like Feel Free) is fucking awful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLObpcBR2yw

Free Free is celebrating this DEA rule because they say they're exempt due to their use of natural kratom leaf, not synthetic: https://botanictonics.com/pages/consumer-education

I am skeptical though since I presume their capsules are much stronger than natural kratom powder. The linked YouTube video seems to say that Feel Free intentionally includes higher concentrations of 7-OH. So a bit confused.

I hope the Feel Free does experience the crack down. Seems like someone just needs to test the Feel Free product's 7-OH concentration level, and if it exceeds 0.05%, as it likely does, the ban will apply.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#157

Post by pstuart »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #47
sigmoid10 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are most OTC drugs. Doesn't change the fact that you can get them everywhere. And long term nicotine use causes dependence similar to heroin.

It doesn’t even compare man. I am pro legalization of drugs but it doesn’t mean they should be as unregulated as kratom currently is

Drug regulation should be very simple:

1. Purity, strength, and disclosure of ingredients.

2. Responsible advertising/promotion/distribution.

I'm pro kratom but I find it abhorrent the way it's marketed and sold without any warnings or acknowledgements of addiction.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#158

Post by djriley »

nozzlegear wrote: post #70
chlorion wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors will prescribe methadone or suboxone instead most likely, both of which are * massively* more powerful and addictive than kratom.

Prescribing opioids in the US is heavily monitored and scrutinized now. Doctors (and NPs, of which my mother is one) have to document the justification, meet state law restrictions, verify the prescription drug monitoring checks with their state, and complete the EHR workflows[†] before they can send in the prescription. There are more checks after that too that the pharmacist has to complete, and the insurance compa…

Suboxone is regulated quite a bit differently than full agonist opioids despite being a massively powerful drug. One can get a prescription online via Telemedicine for $100 and a 3 minute visit in almost all 50 states. This was started around covid to help mitigate the opiod crisis and lower barriers to access. Suboxone is CIII instead of CII like many opioids and used to have special prescribing requirements requiring a class, patient limits, etc but those have been lifted.

It may be a lifesaving/life-changing drug for many but it is also potent enough for a single dose to put a non-tolerant user in the dirt and is abusable for non-tolerant users just as any other opiod. It has been popular as a street drug in Europe for example for decades.

Checking on Quick.md, a Telemedicine service that prescribed Suboxone it is indicated for folks who are addicted to fentanyl, heroin, opiod pharmaceuticals and kratom/7OH. If you are not opiod tolerant you can put yourself in a coma today for $100 + pharmacy fees. No need to prove dependancy with a positive drug test, no therapy, nothing.

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#159

Post by dev_hugepages »

overgard wrote: post #66

One of the big dangers I've heard of with 7-Oh is it seems like treatment centers don't really know how to treat withdrawal from it, which I've heard is extremely rough.

You can't treat it with opioid agonist therapy (buprenorphine, methadone, ...) to suppress the withdrawals like you would with most other cases of opioid dependency?

Re: DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety

#160

Post by Legend2440 »

pstuart wrote: post #154
Legend2440 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments have spent considerable effort on it, but it's tough to ban something as popular as tobacco or alcohol. Voters tend to get what they want, and a sizeable fraction of voters smoke or drink.

> Voters tend to get what they want I wish that was true. In the case of tobacco and alcohol, there's enough monied interests to ensure it would never be illegal. So this defines the classic simple argument about the issue: alcohol and tobacco are dangerous and other than a weird House episode, have no medical value , and yet society has decided that some dangerous drugs are ok, because the right people are making mo…

That's cynical nonsense and I don't believe a word of it. Prohibition was repealed by popular vote, not by bought-out politicians.

And we're not 'oppressing' fent addicts by arresting them when they pass out on the sidewalk in front of my apartment. They are causing a problem for the rest of society that we now have to deal with. That's why we do the war on drugs.

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