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Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

thinkingmachines.ai

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Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#41

Post by KronisLV »

MaxPock wrote: post #34

Raised 2 billion dollars at a 12 billion valuation and debuts at 41 on the Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index, while KIMI and DeepSeek will release Fable-class models this week. What a joke.

> ...while KIMI and DeepSeek will release Fable-class models this week.

What new model is DeepSeek releasing? Their current V4 Pro at Max reasoning is consistently worse than GLM 5.2 at Max reasoning, though the latter is close to Opus 4.8 at Extra/Max reasoning, albeit a little bit worse in my experience (though if they gave comparable amounts of tokens to Anthropic 5x Max subscription I could see myself moving over, currently they give you less though even with their ZCode discount).

In practical agentic development, none of those seem to be that close to Fable to me. Spent 181 million tokens with GLM 5.2 with ZCode in the past month, 142 million with DeepSeek V4 Pro with ZCode and OpenCode and about 3.45 billion across all Anthropic models with Claude Code, though understandably with my workload between 95-99% of them are cached (very docs/plan/tooling/read heavy work to limit slop, albeit with sub-agents and workflows).

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#42

Post by InsideOutSanta »

verdverm wrote: post #6
ls_stats wrote: post #2

America needs its own DeepSeek or Z.ai, a lot of people (myself included) root for open chinese models to win because they have no other choice. Thinking Machines might be it.

Its not as good as GLM 5.2 for agentic workflows while also being bigger. Competition is going to be ruthless because the super low cost to switching. There is also AllenAi in the US, but they have yet to produce a model at this scale. Thankfully, new contenders can come out of nowhere and do well, as long as they can produce a competitive model.

> Its not as good as GLM 5.2 for agentic workflows while also being bigger

GLM 5.2 underwent extensive post-training and iteration since its original release to reach its current state. This seems like an extremely strong model for a first release, with a lot of potential for improvement, just like DS4.

Sometimes I wish Meta had stuck with Llama 4 a bit longer to see how much further it could be pushed.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#45

Post by subygan »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #33

What are the different business models for open-weight AI companies?

For thinking machines, they provide super simple finetuning APIs.

if it is their model, they can have more lower level integrations for that. Thinking machines might be the only large lab in the US to have business interest aligned with open sourcing strong models that are customizable.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#46

Post by Topfi »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #33

What are the different business models for open-weight AI companies?

Similar to companies working on FOSS codebases, hosting (sometimes with the license restricting third-parties in some way), providing tailored models and services to customer's and getting bought for your team if your model happens to be competitive enough.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#47

Post by InsideOutSanta »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #32
ianbutler wrote: post #9

It's nice to see a strong long context open weights model that is multi-modal. There are many applications that will benefit from the strength in audio here and until z.ai and co work in visual this could be very strong for general agentic applications, though I see there's a bit of weakness in the benches for areas that might make that less true. Like all models need to slap it in your harness and do proper evals on…

MiniMax M3 and DeepSeek v4-Pro are highly capable long context open weight multi-modal models. But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

> But long-context is a trap, because performance still falls dramatically after 150k-200k context.

I'm not sure exactly what causes the difference, but this heavily depends on the model. In my experience with Opus 4.8, I can go well over 500k and still get extremely good results. A drastically different example was GLM-5.1, which worked great until about 100k and then turned insane almost immediately. They did fix that with 5.2, though.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#48

Post by InsideOutSanta »

charcircuit wrote: post #39
firasd wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just serving the model over API seems like a natural fit and is what many of them are doing. So simply being the cloud provider for your own open weight model can be a source of revenue

What is the moat? The time it takes for AI to rewrite an efficient inference stack for a new model? Considering most LLMs follow a similar architecture, adapting to a new model shouldn't take that much time.

There is no moat. At the moment, all of these companies are burning money to gain mindshare and market share. That's what Thinking Machines is doing; they're not looking for a business model.

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#49

Post by [deleted] »

verdverm wrote: post #6
ls_stats wrote: post #2

America needs its own DeepSeek or Z.ai, a lot of people (myself included) root for open chinese models to win because they have no other choice. Thinking Machines might be it.

Its not as good as GLM 5.2 for agentic workflows while also being bigger. Competition is going to be ruthless because the super low cost to switching. There is also AllenAi in the US, but they have yet to produce a model at this scale. Thankfully, new contenders can come out of nowhere and do well, as long as they can produce a competitive model.

[deleted]

Re: Inkling: Our Open-Weights Model

#50

Post by gordonhart »

MaxPock wrote: post #34

Raised 2 billion dollars at a 12 billion valuation and debuts at 41 on the Artificial Analysis Intelligence Index, while KIMI and DeepSeek will release Fable-class models this week. What a joke.

Moonshot (Kimi) has raised $3.77B and been around for >3 years, Thinking Machines raising $2B and releasing a decent open weights model in 16 months is actually quite comparable.
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