Live data from Hacker News

Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

dev.moe

71–80 of 166 posts

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#71
post #51
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I don’t see the appeal compared to Signal. Although, Signal is also sketchy with an operating cost in the tens of millions of dollars per year. Where does the money come from?

- Telegram has exemplary fast, native clients on most platforms I’ve used it on - Cat stickers - Did I mention it has the best native clients out of all the messaging apps? It boggles the mind why other companies can’t get this done.

I'll add:

- Telegram had usernames in 2014 before Signal added them a decade later, allowing people to chat without sharing their phone number

- Telegram has unencrypted chats which allow for giant chat rooms of 200,000+ and channels with millions of subscribers. Signal warns about performance issues when you have more than 150 people in a group. Telegram isn't just a messenger - it's often used as a social publishing platform like Instagram.

I don't use Telegram and use Signal a lot, but I also understand why other people use Telegram: the same reason they use Instagram.

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#72
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main things that are slow are loading the app and opening the app, loading the messages, and receiving the messages. On my phone, this is much slower than Telegram, and on my computer, the WhatsApp program doesn't even work have the time -- it just gets stuck in the loading process. Signal is not as bad, but can still take a minute or two to update everything on my computer. The phone app is better.

Sounds more like your personal problem. I live in Germany and use both. None do that and as I'm "the IT guy" for many people at work an din private, I'd have heard about it. Hell, the whole continent would have heard about it as whatsapp is widely used. My Signal also doesn't do that.

There are three people in this thread with this "personal" problem.

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#73
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main things that are slow are loading the app and opening the app, loading the messages, and receiving the messages. On my phone, this is much slower than Telegram, and on my computer, the WhatsApp program doesn't even work have the time -- it just gets stuck in the loading process. Signal is not as bad, but can still take a minute or two to update everything on my computer. The phone app is better.

Sounds more like your personal problem. I live in Germany and use both. None do that and as I'm "the IT guy" for many people at work an din private, I'd have heard about it. Hell, the whole continent would have heard about it as whatsapp is widely used. My Signal also doesn't do that.

Since the whatsapp cliënt on desktop was replaced by a web wrapper it's even worse.

I don't even remember how the previous cliënt did it but my spelling suggestions are in English (as is the OS) but my chats are all in Dutch. Most words have a red underline.

It recently gave up downloading images. Turned out it was no longer allowed to write to its own folder. Not sure if this should be blamed on MS but from the (many) user perspective it just stopped working.

It keeps limited chat history which makes it inferior to IRC.

It badly wants you to use ai.

It has a spam channel where it promotes it self.

The phone app is decent tho

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#74
post #50

The more I learn about telegram, the sketchier it seems.

Agreed. I don’t see the appeal compared to Signal. Although, Signal is also sketchy with an operating cost in the tens of millions of dollars per year. Where does the money come from?

Telegram is important if you get your news from sources outside of the 'Anglo American empire'. People all over the planet use Telegram to curate their own news feeds and cultivate their own communities. This is generally done with a view to promote understanding rather than to spread misinformation. Telegram is great if you want the perspective of 'the other side' or 'both sides' if you 'trust but verify'.

Some people can get the Telegram app and never get to find any of these communities to never understand what Telegram is really about. Usually though, channel owners repost from other channels and promote channels they like. If you follow one channel then it should not be hard to find other channels in the way. You can also see what other people are subscribed to, depending on their privacy settings.

Importantly, there is no algorithm on a home page, urging you to sign up for promoted content.

As for 'where does the money come from', there are ways to subscribe to get a few more bells and whistles, with many that cultivate a community choosing to do so, in order to manage their channel(s). Few normal users pay up, and the app isn't paywalled or 'pay to post'.

There is a whole parallel universe of drug dealers and women that sell their bodies, all of which is a search away. I doubt these people are paying for premium accounts either.

IMHO only a modest amount of money is needed, sure, bandwidth has to be paid for, however, the app is already written and it is very good. I have no idea why the likes of Meta need tens of thousands of 'engineers' for optimising doom scrolling 'with AI'.

With Telegram, you could have 1% of 1M users paying $10 a year, meaning revenue of $100k a year. That would be okay if it was Pavel and his bro in his mum's basement with one server to pay for.

Scale this up to a billion and now you are talking. Since the app scales, are more staff needed? A few devs, but not that many managers since the founders are technical and therefore don't need the useless hordes of non-technical managers. Yet the money is now 1% of a billion. Multiply that by $10 a year, every year, and Pavel ends up asking finding his Bugatti on the moon.

This sounds manageable to me, no need to run in debt, have shareholders or be beholden to vested interests.

At Meta et al., there is a need to feed the greed of the stock market, pay billions in debt, do billions in share buybacks, do the AI nonsense, keep the advertisers happy, keep America's Greatest Ally happy, sign a secret deal with Five Eyes and the list goes on.

I have never met Pavel or the Meta guy, whatever his name is, but I suspect the former is getting more out of life than the latter.

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#75
post #50

The more I learn about telegram, the sketchier it seems.

Agreed. I don’t see the appeal compared to Signal. Although, Signal is also sketchy with an operating cost in the tens of millions of dollars per year. Where does the money come from?

The appeal of Telegram over Signal or WhatsApp is that it is not an American or BigTech service. (And, ofcourse, it's really good). Signal is funded by 2 rich American entrepreneurs who made their fortune when their services were acquired by Twitter (TextSecure / RedPhone) and Meta (WhatsApp), respectively. Whether it is indeed altruism behind this, you'll have to judge for yourself ...

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#76
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds more like your personal problem. I live in Germany and use both. None do that and as I'm "the IT guy" for many people at work an din private, I'd have heard about it. Hell, the whole continent would have heard about it as whatsapp is widely used. My Signal also doesn't do that.

There are three people in this thread with this "personal" problem.

It's the gold standard for bad support: pretend the user has a problem.

There once was this thread on a blog for a windows XP pirated edition. Someone commented that something small didn't work. They replied in less than a minute, that's terrible! 10 minutes later the version was incremented and a new reply said: Try the new version! After 30 minutes the bug fix was confirmed.

They weren't trying to be funny but it still makes me laugh how it compares to Microsoft, the 3 trillion software company.

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#77
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main things that are slow are loading the app and opening the app, loading the messages, and receiving the messages. On my phone, this is much slower than Telegram, and on my computer, the WhatsApp program doesn't even work have the time -- it just gets stuck in the loading process. Signal is not as bad, but can still take a minute or two to update everything on my computer. The phone app is better.

Sounds more like your personal problem. I live in Germany and use both. None do that and as I'm "the IT guy" for many people at work an din private, I'd have heard about it. Hell, the whole continent would have heard about it as whatsapp is widely used. My Signal also doesn't do that.

From USA, one mainly needs WhatsApp to chat with Latin Americans. Judging from the billboards I have seen in Argentina and Uruguay, there are a lot of Latin Americans getting WA free. So of course, why pay more?

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#79
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram has nothing to do with Russia, other than having a Russian founder, and the Ukrainian military has literally relied upon it in the past, along with many Ukrainian civic services. You people are just racist towards Russians and need help. Based on the analysis of packet captures above, I believe it is clear that anyone who has sufficient visibility into Telegram’s traffic would be able to identify and track t…

>You people are just racist towards Russians and need help. That doesn’t exclude the statements about Telegram to be correct though. That is, if some hater against whatever group say 1+1=2 or water is wet, what’s the conclusion? >You can do similar attacks on signal and whatsapp. Well yes. Don’t trust devices, they are not humans, they don’t qualify. They can at most have some degree of reliance for some purpose. But…

> You people are just racist towards Russians and need help.

>> That doesn’t exclude the statements about Telegram to be correct though.

just attack the telegram from the technical standpoint, then no complains about "racist towards russians" will be given. Like, mentioning the lack of user-friendly E2EE is great already. Saying things like "Durov who supposedly lives in exile has visited Russia over 50 times" is meh. How can one intepret it in any other way is "Russia is evil and visiting Russia is thus evil"?

and regarding the cracking contests — one of the telegram bugs was actually uncovered this way, see https://habr.com/ru/articles/206900/

Re: Mysteries of Telegram Data Centers (2022)

#80
post #51
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I don’t see the appeal compared to Signal. Although, Signal is also sketchy with an operating cost in the tens of millions of dollars per year. Where does the money come from?

- Telegram has exemplary fast, native clients on most platforms I’ve used it on - Cat stickers - Did I mention it has the best native clients out of all the messaging apps? It boggles the mind why other companies can’t get this done.

Unfortunately the upselling has got kind of annoying and in-your-face the past few years

But indeed their native clients are great, especially on iOS. It legitimately feels more native and intuitive than Apple's own Messages app. Animations run at a smooth, stable framerate. Never hitches jumping between conversations. One of the greatest apps ever made.

Post reply on HN