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Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

richarddawkins.net

41–50 of 84 posts

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#41
post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

who will go to mars, if there will be not enough to fill earth?

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#42
post #34

Male energy is in crisis. In the modern world boys aren't allowed to be boys to make sure they will become men grown tame. Boys are grown by women—and these days also men who have adopted the women's way of growing kids. We think that male energy is aggressive and offensive, and it must be suppressed and tainted, while simultaneously we have lost our icons of what real manhood entails. We don't have rites of manhood…

Oh, Lord. HN is turning into Reddit more and more by the minute.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#43
post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

You beat me to it. While the resource to person ratio for our current population may be somewhat sustainable, that does not take into account the output of humans, such as trash, waste, unnatural pollutants, and (sorry, but it's pertinent) carbon gases.

So while humans may be fine at our current population, the earth and its other tenants are not fine. Humans are the most destructive force in nature, and the less of them there are the better, for our own survival as well as the rest of the planet.

Add the impending climate change into the mix (once again, our fault), which will most likely bring droughts and famine, and your resource-to-person ratio drops significantly, making the human population as it is now dangerously high.

I really think dropping human population is a good thing. It will mean less conflicts and resource contention in the next 300 years as deserts spread and oceans rise.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is depopulation a crisis?

The most immediate answer is that it makes a European-style system of social insurance for older people difficult when the ratio of working people to retirees decreases. The broader answer is that it upends economic expectations. Say I'm thinking of building an office tower. If I know there will be fewer workers in 10 years, instead of more, I'm less likely to build it. If I'm pricing stock in a company, and I know t…

[deleted]

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#45
post #34

Male energy is in crisis. In the modern world boys aren't allowed to be boys to make sure they will become men grown tame. Boys are grown by women—and these days also men who have adopted the women's way of growing kids. We think that male energy is aggressive and offensive, and it must be suppressed and tainted, while simultaneously we have lost our icons of what real manhood entails. We don't have rites of manhood…

My two kickass adult sons would find this paragraph laughable.

-- Their Mom

Though, in all fairness, I am kind of a ballbusting bitch and did not raise my sons "normally". My ex was career military, so I could afford to be a ballbusting bitch since my anachronistic family of origin and the federal government both had my back. But I imagine that a) you wouldn't be up for a meaty discussion of that sort and b) hn is probably not the place to have it.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#46
There is a real good german/french documentary on this subject named 'Men in danger':

"A program which looks at some of the factors which may explain why sperm production in males has dropped 50% in 50 years, and explores an important question currently facing scientists; could chemical molecules in our environment be affecting our ability to reproduce? Aside from the huge drop in the amount of sperm production over the last five decades, scientists have also recorded a dramatic rise in the number of testicular cancers and a disturbing increase in the number of congenital malformations in male reproductive organs - two trends echoed in wildlife studies. This suggests the cause is environmental and not genetic. For Niels Skakkebaek, Danish doctor and researcher, the male reproductive and infertility problems we are currently facing are ‘as important as global warming.' (From France, in English) (Science) M CC WS"

Here is at least an english trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQfduzOmctI

And a review: http://healthhighway.blogspot.de/2008/03/men-in-danger-sbs-d...

Germans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFBbbItpdc8

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#47
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is depopulation a crisis?

The most immediate answer is that it makes a European-style system of social insurance for older people difficult when the ratio of working people to retirees decreases. The broader answer is that it upends economic expectations. Say I'm thinking of building an office tower. If I know there will be fewer workers in 10 years, instead of more, I'm less likely to build it. If I'm pricing stock in a company, and I know t…

I guess that does sound like a difficult crisis - so point taken. But failure of a flawed system can be a positive result. The longer we go on encouraging systems that require infinite growth, the harder it's going to be to recover from the failure.

If we didn't have a pyramid scheme underlying the basic economic system, growth wouldn't be such a determining factor in city attractiveness and population increase wouldn't be a significant fuel that drives the growth.

Okay but back to reality: I now see how population decline could lead to a crisis while things adjust (eg: some cities collapse like detroit, some flourish). Thanks for the detailed reply. This is a complicated topic and I expect some people have much more thought out alternatives to our current predicament than I would come up with here.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#48
post #17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drifting into a state of perpetual war? Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history?

> Drifting into a state of perpetual war? Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history? Let's look at the evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_military_confli... The only reason we aren't aware of the number of military conflicts taking place is because they aren't on the evening news. And yes, by any objective measure, this is a more warlike time than any in prior history, simply bec…

The only reason we aren't aware of the number of military conflicts taking place is because they aren't on the evening news.

That's a little unfair. They're rarely covered on submission/popularity-driven news sites, either. People tend not to care unless it figures into their usual political arguments. I notice this a lot with terrorism: people in the US seem to think it's mythical because it doesn't happen to them very often, even if it's unfortunately common globally. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_Ja...

By the way, there's a lovely book on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Who-Hates-Whom-Well-Armed-Intractable/...

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#49
post #15
post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

Drifting into a state of perpetual war? Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history?

> Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history?

Relevant TED lecture by Steven Pinker:

http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violen...

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#50
post #38
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not actually evidence related to the assertion at hand. For that, you'd need a historical comparison, which that list does not provide. You may be right about absolute numbers, but absolute numbers are pointless here. From what I've seen before, in terms of the relative number of people killed in war compared to the overall population, this is the most peaceful time known. If 2x as many people get killed in wa…

I don't entirely agree that "absolute numbers are pointless here". If you look at the amount of human suffering, your world is 2x worse.

By that reasoning, a world where there are only a thousand people, divided into two tribes constantly engaged in horrific war, is vastly better.
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