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Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

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Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#61

Post by SoftTalker »

toenail wrote: post #18
IceHegel wrote: post #16

I have always wondered about the origins of the anti nuclear opinion of Germans. It has Cold War origins to be sure, but what kind? I suspect American intelligence has been supporting the anti nuclear movement for some time, for non-proliferation reasons - and not just in Germany. I certainly would be, if I ran the State Department.

It's mostly fear after Chernobyl, fueled by environmental groups and the Green party primarily.

Weren't the anti-nuke hippies already quite a force before that?

Pete Seeger wrote his anti-nuke spin-off of "Acres of Clams" in the 1970s I think.

Not specific to Germany but there's been a very vocal anti-nuke movement almost since the beginning. They were pretty successful in ending new nuclear generating plant construction in the USA also.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#62

Post by atmosx »

Hackbraten wrote: post #45
xutopia wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please refrain from putting these 2 in the same bucket. Fracking does lots of localized and non-local pollution. Nuclear is contained and way safer for humans.

> Nuclear is contained Except when it de-contains itself.

I would put all the “nuke is safe” ppl in an island alongside the reactor and go back every 100 years to check if they went Atlantis or not yet…

I get that it’s a a form of clean energy and we kind of need that in the EU but a remote, “protected”, isolated location would be my first choice.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#64

Post by inglor_cz »

pydry wrote: post #47
maxdo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No brain because there is lack of survival instincts in such phrase? Russia openly declares willingness to destroy europe, your lifestyle, way of thinking etc. They claim they are better. Sure , sponsoring this country is no brainer lol. Germany already financed biggest war in europe since WWII by flooding russia with oil money. Is that not enough? Amount of money EU spent to tame the fire of war could easily cover b…

>Russia openly declares willingness to destroy europe There is not a scintilla of evidence for this. They're trying to keep the same violent and aggressive American dominated military alliance that is currently and actively trying to destroy Iran far away from their most vulnerable border. They also tried to pursue the diplomatic route multiple times before invading and after invading and were always rebuffed.

They started the largest war in Europe since 1945 and I fervently hope that Putin will pay for that in a way similar to Hitler.

That entire war is a massive, futile attempt to revive their glorious imperial days by annexing lands that they consider their alienated property. Fuck them and their bombs and their disgusting oscillations between paranoia and megalomania.

Contemporary Russia has fewer people than Pakistan and a smaller economy than Italy. It has no business playing a "mighty superpower" role anymore, but it ignored that reality (Putin is very much a person of the past, as is his inner circle of post-Soviet siloviks in their 60s and 70s) ... and it is learning the hard way.

The best possible outcome of this war from Kremlin's point of view is that they will become a de-facto resource colony for China, somewhat benevolently managed by actually competent people.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#65

Post by nmehner »

IceHegel wrote: post #16

I have always wondered about the origins of the anti nuclear opinion of Germans. It has Cold War origins to be sure, but what kind? I suspect American intelligence has been supporting the anti nuclear movement for some time, for non-proliferation reasons - and not just in Germany. I certainly would be, if I ran the State Department.

* If the cold war had turned into a hot war, almost all of Germany would have been nuked. The expectation was not to be able to stop the soviet invasion, but to nuke them in western Germany.

* The nuclear industry in Germany was plagued by scandals and big parts plain criminal: https://www-deutschlandfunkkultur-de.translate.goog/hanau-de...

* And ineptitude was common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asse_II_mine

EDIT: The reaction of the state also caused an escalation. The constitutional court blocked governmental overreach: https://www-bpb-de.translate.goog/kurz-knapp/hintergrund-akt... This also lead to the anti nuclear movement being about more than just nuclear plants, but rights for citizens.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#66

Post by pydry »

inglor_cz wrote: post #64
pydry wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Russia openly declares willingness to destroy europe There is not a scintilla of evidence for this. They're trying to keep the same violent and aggressive American dominated military alliance that is currently and actively trying to destroy Iran far away from their most vulnerable border. They also tried to pursue the diplomatic route multiple times before invading and after invading and were always rebuffed.

They started the largest war in Europe since 1945 and I fervently hope that Putin will pay for that in a way similar to Hitler. That entire war is a massive, futile attempt to revive their glorious imperial days by annexing lands that they consider their alienated property. Fuck them and their bombs and their disgusting oscillations between paranoia and megalomania. Contemporary Russia has fewer people than Pakistan…

I'd encourage you to watch John Mearshimer's address to the European parliament because he addresses your narrative of imperial expansion and comprehensively refutes it, with clear, easy to understand evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1U3HDNQ24o

Unfortunately Europe seems to have lost its mind over this conflict. It will end very badly for them if they don't behave rationally towards Russia.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#67

Post by AngryData »

lumost wrote: post #34
notTooFarGone wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we just have to build the first expensive 20 to get the experience and then we reap the rewards after 40 years when we need the knowledge again? If nuclear would be cheap in the western world I'd be all for it but we just can't do large projects in our ccurrent system. Solar + wind + battery is much less of an headache.

I think most nuclear folks would rather divert the "big coal, and nat gas" plant building budgets to "build nuclear." I understand the motivations for solar/wind, but there are real limiters that aren't addressed yet. Nuclear is the only option that is carbon neutral and lacks those limiters making it appealing. If I need steady state gigawatt scale power in a specific location, Nuclear is the only green option.

Yeah, nuclear is a known solution to all our energy problems which is why I advocate for it.

Solar and wind are great but there is still no existing setup to provide a stable and reliable nation level power grid. Nobody has the power storage solution.

Nuclear however has been proven to be capable of delivering any kind of power generation we need at any scale. Perhaps it isn't best solution, but there are no other completely solved solutions, just speculation that before long we will unlock far better battery or energy storage technologies before too long.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#68

Post by nmehner »

SoftTalker wrote: post #61
toenail wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's mostly fear after Chernobyl, fueled by environmental groups and the Green party primarily.

Weren't the anti-nuke hippies already quite a force before that? Pete Seeger wrote his anti-nuke spin-off of "Acres of Clams" in the 1970s I think. Not specific to Germany but there's been a very vocal anti-nuke movement almost since the beginning. They were pretty successful in ending new nuclear generating plant construction in the USA also.

Yes, the free republic of wendland was established in 1980: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Republic_of_Wendland

The battle of brokdorf was also in the 80ies: https://www.helmut-schmidt.de/en/publications/detail/the-bat...

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#69

Post by AngryData »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #55
lumost wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most nuclear folks would rather divert the "big coal, and nat gas" plant building budgets to "build nuclear." I understand the motivations for solar/wind, but there are real limiters that aren't addressed yet. Nuclear is the only option that is carbon neutral and lacks those limiters making it appealing. If I need steady state gigawatt scale power in a specific location, Nuclear is the only green option.

> If I need steady state gigawatt scale power in a specific location, Nuclear is the only green option. I don't believe that is true: one way to produce electricity is a thermal engine driving a generator, but for a thermal engine you need both a cold heat bath and a hot heat bath. Those 2 heat baths could be externally delivered (a stream of ice, and a stream of steam, say) or one of the 2 heat baths could be chosen…

It is an intriguing idea but that is still one hell of a coolant loop with a hell of a lot of mass continously lofted through the atmosphere and subject to weather patterns. A wire I could see doing it but lofting a pair of tubes to transfer a significant volume of fluids seems not far off space-elevator level material science to me.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#70

Post by slaw »

pydry wrote: post #52
Saline9515 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cumulative radioactivity emitted by German coal as a result of the ban on nuclear is likely higher than the amount of radioactivity spread by the Fukushima disaster. We can also add lung issues and other pollution of the environment caused by soot.

Just 6.5% of German electricity was generated through coal last year. By contrast Poland was ~90% for years and only just slipped below 50%. If I had to guess why Poland never got any criticism for that while Germany was routinely pilloried by certain flavors of propaganda I would hypothesize that it was because Poland weren't humiliating the nuclear industry by swapping them with solar panels and wind turbines at 1/…

You forgot 14.8% electricity was made by brown coal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignite

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