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Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

richarddawkins.net

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Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#21

Post by EthanHeilman »

mikeash wrote: post #15
lutusp wrote: post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

Drifting into a state of perpetual war? Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history?

>Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history?

[Citation needed].

Define current period and define peaceful? We haven't had a global conflict in 60-odd years (and yay for that), but we had two global conflicts in the last hundred years. We almost had a third (US vs PRC)and forth one (US vs CCCP) but it appears that nuclear war let cooler heads prevail. In the past two hundred years there is almost no place of human habitation that has been untouched by war.

In fairness most of the civilized world has, with a few rare exceptions, always been in a state of perpetual war.

For bonus points how many wars is did the US fight during the year 2012?

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#22

Post by rayiner »

lutusp wrote: post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

What overpopulation crisis? Current UN projections have population peaking not to much higher than now. China's population is expected to peak in 2026 then start shrinking. Most of Europe is facing a depopulation crisis.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#23

Post by rohansingh »

lukifer wrote: post #20
pathy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit less pessimistic view is presented by Hans Rosling at a relatively recent TED talk. http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_religions_and_babies.h... Well worth watching. Sperm count is unlikely to affect the population growth anyway, what we need is to get people out of poverty and proper family planning with access to proper birth control. Then we can "control" the population.

Don't forget educating women, which tends to result in fewer children per household. I am concerned, though, that the temporary lull in overpopulation will be broken by belief systems that encourage large families; by definition, those with a genetic or memetic instinct to have many children will out-populate those without that instinct. (I have a soft spot for the Mormons, but they come to mind here.)

Memes aren't strictly inheritable in the same way that genes are.

For example, it is completely plausible to advance the argument that children in large families decide to have fewer offspring due to their own childhood experiences. I'm not saying that this is definitively the case or that I have any evidence for it, but it is just as plausible as the conjecture that a propensity for a large number of offspring is perfectly inheritable.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#24

Post by tubbo »

rayiner wrote: post #22
lutusp wrote: post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

What overpopulation crisis? Current UN projections have population peaking not to much higher than now. China's population is expected to peak in 2026 then start shrinking. Most of Europe is facing a depopulation crisis.

Traffic still sucks everywhere. Therefore, population crisis.

When I can get to work at 7am in the same time it takes me to drive home from the same location at 8pm, I will begin to believe that we are facing a "depopulation crisis". ;-)

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#25

Post by mikeash »

EthanHeilman wrote: post #21
mikeash wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drifting into a state of perpetual war? Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history?

>Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history? [Citation needed]. Define current period and define peaceful? We haven't had a global conflict in 60-odd years (and yay for that), but we had two global conflicts in the last hundred years. We almost had a third (US vs PRC)and forth one (US vs CCCP) but it appears that nuclear war let cooler heads prevail. In the past two hundred years there is almost no p…

Quickie googled citation:

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/07/143285836/war-and-violence-on-...

It doesn't much matter what you choose as "current period", because war and violence has been on the decline for quite a long time.

It's pretty annoying to try to have a factual discussion and get replies that are nothing but handwaving and anecdotes. Listing off the violent conflicts in the past century without offering any comparison to wars further in the past is completely useless to this discussion.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#26

Post by bcoates »

lutusp wrote: post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

Wow, that Wikipedia article is awful, and a fantastic demonstration of how hobbyhorse subjects on Wikipedia tend to get filled with crap.

Contra that shitty graph at the top of the article, population diverged from the historical trend of exponential growth in the 1950s. Worldwide birth rates have peaked. The largest cohort of babies the world has ever seen was in the 80s. The population is now growing solely due to increased lifespans.

Much to the disappointment of everyone waiting gleefully for mankind to suffer for its many sins, the Malthusian crisis has not happened, and will not ever happen.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#27

Post by return0 »

lutusp wrote: post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

No, i don't think we should celebrate about such a serious health issue. The data is alarming and future studies should focus on identifying the source of this trend. The decline is reported in developed countries (France and Britain), which already have at-or-below level replacement birth rates. The best way to reduce population growth in the developing world is to bring people out of poverty.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#28

Post by huggah »

napoleoncomplex wrote: post #16

There was an article in The Economist about this as well[0], which points out something that most other sources I've seen seemed to have skipped over: "...much of the effect could be caused by changes in how sperm quality is measured.. the World Health Organisation’s manual on the subject has been revised four times since it was first published in 1980..." "...a continuing investigation of Danish conscripts, is notab…

Those revisions have actually enabled the problem to stay hidden longer; they've reduced the sperm count threshold at which men are considered "normal". You may be referring to technical issues, such as distinguishing live from dead sperm, or measuring motility---but WHO numbers don't reflect that.

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#29

Post by glomph »

lutusp wrote: post #17
mikeash wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drifting into a state of perpetual war? Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history?

> Drifting into a state of perpetual war? Isn't the current period the most peaceful in known history? Let's look at the evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_military_confli... The only reason we aren't aware of the number of military conflicts taking place is because they aren't on the evening news. And yes, by any objective measure, this is a more warlike time than any in prior history, simply bec…

I think many would disagree with you on your definition of what makes a time 'warlike'. I think proportions involved in war would make a lot more sense than absolute numbers.

I found this talk very interesting on a similar topic: http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violen...

Re: Scientists warn of sperm count crisis

#30

Post by grannyg00se »

rayiner wrote: post #22
lutusp wrote: post #2

What? This is being described as a "crisis"? It's the best news I've heard all year. We should celebrate! The world's population is completely out of control, all estimates of future environmental catastrophe turn out to be overly optimistic, we're drifting into a state of perpetual war because of population pressures, and someone laments a decline in sperm count without the slightest grasp of how funny that is? Read…

What overpopulation crisis? Current UN projections have population peaking not to much higher than now. China's population is expected to peak in 2026 then start shrinking. Most of Europe is facing a depopulation crisis.

How is depopulation a crisis?
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