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SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

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Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#231

Post by lokar »

khurs wrote: post #95
infecto wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really the worst thing? People keep bringing this up but it’s the Nasdaq 100. It would be shocking if we were talking about the SP500.

Yes Index and other funds are forced to buy as their contractual mandate is to follow the index or methodology set out by the fund.

They have some flexibility.

And beyond that there is a lot of capital in active funds that use an index as their benchmark. So they don’t have to buy anything, but they are trying to beat their benchmark so not buying is an active decision with risk.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#232

Post by pessimizer »

bmicraft wrote: post #209
inigyou wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True capitalism has never been tried. This right now is crony capitalism.

Ah yes, because capitalism in it's purest form would never have companies form monopolies and lobby governments for favorable legislation.

Under True Capitalism™, cartels could do their price fixing on reality shows.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#233

Post by Symbiote »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #186
khurs wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

quick search: https://www.justetf.com/uk/search.html?search=ETFS&assetClas...

ok, who is forced to buy these ETFs? These are all products that people and funds can choose to buy or not buy.

People already own them, and have owned them for months or years before the rules were changed for SpaceX.

There's a cost to selling, the brokerage fee plus in many countries there's then taxes due on any profits. Many people would prefer to have unrealized gains where they can pay the tax years ahead, when they need the money.

(Also please don't make the same comment 4+ times.)

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#234

Post by dghlsakjg »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #186
khurs wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

quick search: https://www.justetf.com/uk/search.html?search=ETFS&assetClas...

ok, who is forced to buy these ETFs? These are all products that people and funds can choose to buy or not buy.

I'm going to assume this question was in good faith, and ignore that you are seemingly spamming it as a 'gotcha' all over this discussion.

If I'm already invested, and they change the rules on me in a way I don't like, I have to sell, and that's a taxable event.

So if I have invested in a Nasdaq index, and I don't want a massive exposure to SpaceX prematurely, I am forced to close my position and immediately pay taxes on the profits. I pay the taxes, and now my investing capital is reduced because Elon wanted to force index funds to buy SpaceX stock, which indirectly forces all current owners to buy SpaceX.

It's not future buyers so much as people that are already exposed, and were probably not counting on getting rug pulled by the Nasdaq.

So no, you are correct that no one new to investing is forced to own SpaceX stock, but millions of existing fund holders are now exposed to a stock in a way that simply wasn't possible when they put their money in, and will be penalized if they don't want that.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#235

Post by nemomarx »

chmorgan_ wrote: post #59

Is this a real concern? SpaceX is doing amazing in terms of business.

It depends on if you mean the space part or the nascent AI mega company SpaceX is pretending to be. The ipo claimed the space launches would only be a small part of their future profits and business and that they'd reach a 7 trillion dollar TAM or etc - this isn't a good sign for that promise.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#236

Post by lokar »

stackghost wrote: post #171
quickthrowman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t even have access to a NASDAQ fund in my 401K. You have to go out of your way to buy the NASDAQ 100, QQQ and /NQ or /MNQ futures are the most popular instruments for getting exposure. I have a tiny minute slice of SPCX from owning VTI total market ETF but my 401K holds no SpaceX.

>QQQ and /NQ or /MNQ futures are the most popular instruments for getting exposure. QQQ tracks the Nasdaq 100. It's an index fund. If the index includes a new ticker, then QQQ has to buy it. Buying QQQ doesn't seem like going out of one's way. I don't understand your comment. "ETFs and chill" is a very common investment strategy.

You could buy QQNE :)

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#237

Post by estearum »

soleveloper wrote: post #181
Octoth0rpe wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My best guess, it makes it harder to get loans in the future. Which is pretty important! It's my understanding that from all that money they raised during their IPO, a good amount of it went right back out the door again to pay off misc loans for the twitter acquisition. They may only have bought themselves 6 more months of time given their purported burn rate (mostly driven by AI investment), so they're going to n…

> They may only have bought themselves 6 more months of time given their purported burn rate If they had only ~6 more months they (+auditor) had to issue a warning. The 6 is not a hard number, AFAIK, but surely a point where it must be reported. So honestly, I doubt it's the case.

At least as written, GP says bought them six more months of time. Not implying they had 0 months to begin with.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#238

Post by pessimizer »

inigyou wrote: post #180
rconti wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1 rule of sales. If someone is trying to sell you something, you _probably_ don't want it. Eg, they need the sale more than you do. The very fact that they were asking the question is such a huge red flag.

Them needing it more than you doesn't mean you don't need it too. Bought an air mattress recently. Way better than a sleeping bag on the ground, even though I can also manage that.

Did you buy it from a door-to-door salesman, or did you seek it out?

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#239

Post by throw1234567891 »

riffraff wrote: post #200
throw1234567891 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president may throw a tantrum that “some crazy democrat throws stones under the feet of that beautiful Elon, the most beautiful Elon we ever had”. Better do what the new Tzar wants. Dude was sent here apparently by the God, don’t mess with the God.

Musk and Trump had a pretty public break up, I think this is one fuckup where we shouldn't blame him.

Maybe Trump has money in it. Who needs friends when you have money. “It’s just business”. No idea, I don’t really follow this soap drama.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#240

Post by lokar »

tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #190
stackghost wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>QQQ and /NQ or /MNQ futures are the most popular instruments for getting exposure. QQQ tracks the Nasdaq 100. It's an index fund. If the index includes a new ticker, then QQQ has to buy it. Buying QQQ doesn't seem like going out of one's way. I don't understand your comment. "ETFs and chill" is a very common investment strategy.

And who is forced to buy QQQ?

Many retirement accounts have limited options, leaving few passive index options. I sort of doubt many would offer qqq but not s&p, but it’s possible
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