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Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

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Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#71

Post by coldtea »

ssgodderidge wrote: post #11

Couldn’t this effect be classic cause vs correlation? Perhaps someone who has a consistent schedule is hypothetically more likely to make healthier choices on average?

>Couldn’t this effect be classic cause vs correlation?

Sometimes changing the correlated item, also affects the cause, through a link of causual changes.

E.g.: "Night visits to the fridge linked to high cholesterol".

Now, that's just correlation: it's not the visiting of the fridge, it's the snacking.

But if you read that and stop visiting the fridge, you likely reduce your snacking too as a side effect, and thus lower your cholesterol, without consciously trying to address the primary cause.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#73

Post by toss1 »

elcritch wrote: post #5

Well that sucks, given I have a gene variant related to delayed sleep according to 23andme. Last year I did an experiment of sorts while unemployed for a time and found that if I just slept and woke when tired that my sleep time would naturally recess and eventually "flip" after about a month. My entire life I've wondered why I feel incredibly tired and found waking up so difficult. Turns out that if you follow your…

You are not alone.

Recalling from college neuroscience classes and subsequent reading of research, the studies show the ordinary human sleep cycle when unrestrained adds about a half hour per day, so 24.5 hours is 'natural'. Long-term studies with all time cues carefully removed ended up with subjects on a ~50 hour sleep schedule, as in awake 36-38 hours and sleeping 12-14hrs.

This is also why it is easier to travel across time zones to the west than to the east.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#74

Post by pmarreck »

c03 wrote: post #32
djoldman wrote: post #17

As always with a lot of these: it's not saying causation. You might measure the speed of your car by putting your hand out of the window and notice that the wind force on your hand is strong when the car goes fast. Putting your hand out of the window and then blocking the wind with a book doesn't make the car slow down. Keyword: "associated" EDIT: I meant to communicate that it doesn't make the car slow down as much…

>Putting your hand out of the window and then blocking the wind with a book doesn't make the car slow down. ...yes it does?

only if the book is being held by someone in the car.

Presumably, the example missed the part where they stated the book was being held in front by an outside agent, because that is the only way it would make sense.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#75

Post by bkazez »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #33
elcritch wrote: post #5

Well that sucks, given I have a gene variant related to delayed sleep according to 23andme. Last year I did an experiment of sorts while unemployed for a time and found that if I just slept and woke when tired that my sleep time would naturally recess and eventually "flip" after about a month. My entire life I've wondered why I feel incredibly tired and found waking up so difficult. Turns out that if you follow your…

I also have sleep drift problem and consistenyly had it for the past 7 years. I discovered that it helps when I actually put in effort to fix my sleep schedule. Like getting off screen 1 hour before I sleep. Boxing bedtime to 23:00-08:00. And similar things. It is just really difficult to fix for me but it doesn't feel impossible. I have made progress in last 6 months but trying different methods and only some portio…

You might find some benefit from an app like Wavekength[1] that uses iPhone camera to coach your light exposure, based on current+desired circadian rhythms.

Disclaimer: I made the app.

[1] https://www.impulsearc.com/wavelength/

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#76

Post by kachnuv_ocasek »

boilerupnc wrote: post #55
xrisk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tfa: "Results were adjusted for age, sex, ethnicity, and sociodemographic, lifestyle, and health factors"

Would love to see a causal model [0] to help better understand all of the mediators considered as well as confounders. I'm close to finishing up an interesting read from Judea Pearl/Dana Mackenzie - The Book of Why: The New Science of Cause and Effect [1]. Talks alot about Causal Models, Causal Inference, the 3 ladders of causation, etc. I liked the graphical approach to help outline exactly how one thinks about dire…

McElreath's Statistical Rethinking is also a great reference for causal thinking and modeling.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#77

Post by ablob »

coldtea wrote: post #71
ssgodderidge wrote: post #11

Couldn’t this effect be classic cause vs correlation? Perhaps someone who has a consistent schedule is hypothetically more likely to make healthier choices on average?

> Couldn’t this effect be classic cause vs correlation? Sometimes changing the correlated item, also affects the cause, through a link of causual changes. E.g.: "Night visits to the fridge linked to high cholesterol". Now, that's just correlation: it's not the visiting of the fridge, it's the snacking. But if you read that and stop visiting the fridge, you likely reduce your snacking too as a side effect, and thus lo…

I feel like your example is flawed, I just can't put my finger on it.

Maybe it's because I don't see how sleep regularity is a factor you can change as willingly as visits to the fridge, or maybe its because I don't see why people wouldn't just eat more before heading to bed.

It could also just be that I find a treatment of symptoms to be less desirable than causes.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#78

Post by HumblyTossed »

getnormality wrote: post #69
djoldman wrote: post #17

As always with a lot of these: it's not saying causation. You might measure the speed of your car by putting your hand out of the window and notice that the wind force on your hand is strong when the car goes fast. Putting your hand out of the window and then blocking the wind with a book doesn't make the car slow down. Keyword: "associated" EDIT: I meant to communicate that it doesn't make the car slow down as much…

> As always with a lot of these: it's not saying causation. But what they are saying is, it would be valuable if it was causative wiggles eyebrows Last sentence of the abstract: > Sleep regularity may be a simple, effective target for improving general health and survival.

> Sleep regularity may be a simple, effective target for improving general health and survival.

But why would it NOT be? Seems stupid for us to have evolved into beings that need our sleep to be irregular.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#79

Post by bkazez »

Having just spent a few months reading circadian entrainment papers for a circadian rhythm app I just finished,[1] I wonder if this effect might be about circadian amplitude[2] (rather than phase, which has gotten more attention).

[1] https://www.impulsearc.com/wavelength/

[2] e.g. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41540-023-00300-w

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