Live data from Hacker News

Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

danq.me

511–520 of 571 posts

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#511
post #491
post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone can tell the difference immediately due to the lack of performance

You'd be surprised. Obsidian, slack, Spotify, figma etc don't usually get panned for lack of performance, and those aren't even very light weight. As wasm apps mature, it will only get harder to justify maintaining 5 different native apps instead of a single cross platform one

Slack and Spotify really suck. I can't judge Obsidian and Figma, I don't use them.

The one example I know where they seem to have done a good job (at least in the beginning) is VScode, and even there it's not great. It's just not terrible. Put the same effort into a native app and it will be great.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#512
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the op, proper graphics. Web 3D will never compete with native APIs in developer tooling, and hardware capabilities. Now outside gaming, all CRUD apps could easily be mobile Web.

Okay, but why do you need 3D for an interface where you register leave?

Missed my last sentence?

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#513

Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. I'm responsible for an internal tool at the company I work for, hosted as a website, that handles a bunch of miscellaneous tasks that other employees need. Think reimbursements, documentation and reporting, gathering and presenting business data. That sort of thing. When I took it over, it was desktop only ( a lot of formatted pa…

I came here to say that a significant number of developers want apps, too. Including me. For many reasons including performance. But the one I want to mention here is security, because it systematically gets missed by web people:

End-to-end encryption fundamentally doesn't work in webpages. Because when you load a webpage, you have a 1:1 connection to the server which sends you the code you need to run. You have to trust that the server sends you the right code, every single time, and there is no practical way to verify it. The whole point of E2EE is that you don't trust the server, and with a webpage you fundamentally trust the server. That's completely incompatible.

Let's compare the Signal mobile app and the ProtonMail website:

- With Signal, you can audit the sources, compile them and run that. You know you are running the code you audited. You can trust someone else to audit the code, compile it and run it. Or you can just download it through the Play Store and know that tens (hundreds?) of millions of people did that too. If you download it through the Play Store, you can "verify" your app with someone else, making sure that Google didn't send you a modified version (which would have required Signal and Google to collude in the first place). You know when the app is updated. If it matters for your life, you can make sure you benefit from end-to-end encryption.

- With ProtonMail, you load a website. Everytime you load it, the sources could change. When you enter your password, you enter it in that very code that the server just sent you. So the server could identify you, and just this one time, send you a different version of the code, just for you, that would leak your password to them. You don't have any way to pin a version of the website and compare it with others, and there is no need for Proton to collude with anyone else to do that (it's a lot easier when no collusion is needed).

Again: end-to-end encryption fundamentally does not work with webpages.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#514
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One important which is not included: web apps are resource hogs

Electron and React apps, perhaps. It's completely feasible to build a webapp that is lightweight. I have done it several times.

Or just shitty developers that never give things a second - just sayin

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#515
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web sites optimized for mobile weren't really a thing when the iPhone launched. That's why apps shined on smart phones. Web designers did eventually catch up with the hack but the trend towards apps was already too established at that point and people thought that you need an app to use a service.

HTML 5 canvas exists because of the iPhone, originally it was going to use Web apps.

Apple created , but it wasn’t for the iPhone, it was for Mac OS X dashboard widgets. This was a few years before the iPhone existed.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#516
post #362

Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. I'm responsible for an internal tool at the company I work for, hosted as a website, that handles a bunch of miscellaneous tasks that other employees need. Think reimbursements, documentation and reporting, gathering and presenting business data. That sort of thing. When I took it over, it was desktop only ( a lot of formatted pa…

> We take tech literacy for granted, because it's like a dozen levels down fundamental to our entire field. But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. They "love apps" because apple and android have spent billions to break their mental models and convince them that "you use apps to do things on your phone". Literally. That's the extent of most people's understanding. So, sure, they "want" apps in the same sen…

webapps are inefficient, clunky, slow substitutes to actual native apps. I think decades of marketing and billions spent by Google trying to convince people that webapps are better is what makes many tech people think they are. Literally.

People "want" webapps to be what users "wanted" bc it pays their salary...

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#517
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many reasons to prefer an app, most of which are ways OS makers have crippled web apps for reasons that TOTALLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the fact that they get a 30% cut if the user chooses the native app.

This is wrong. The most important reasons why I prefer mobile apps are the same as why I prefer desktop programs. - I can download it once and then use it. - I can see when it gets updated (versus a website that gets updated every time I load it). For security reasons it's better, I can even verify my app with other people online and make sure we run the same thing. - End-to-end encryption doesn't make much sense in…

> - I can see when it gets updated (versus a website that gets updated every time I load it). For security reasons it's better, I can even verify my app with other people online and make sure we run the same thing.

in many cases this is no longer the case. Discord, for example, has introduced capabilities to update parts of the app without goung through the play store on android, same with youtube. Which they obviously use to enshittify things against your will.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#518
post #508
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t really make sense. Apps were pretty popular immediately after decades of web usage. There are many reasons to prefer an app. Even on desktop; if I’m using a service enough throughout the day, I want a native app, not a website.

I kind of get this, but quite a lot of the websites/webapps I use are better off on the web. Imagine that from tomorrow, hackernews is an app. You can't do stuff like open 10 different tabs of it, put it in a tab group, expect it to restore where you left off after shutting down your device. It's interaction with other pages is also wrong. It would have to either open a webview or a separate browser app, both of whic…

> This is why I don't like Reddit pushing an app and breaking/limiting the mobile website. It's just not how I want to use it at all.

As with many reddit problems, old.reddit.com is a pretty universal fix.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#519
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We take tech literacy for granted, because it's like a dozen levels down fundamental to our entire field. But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. They "love apps" because apple and android have spent billions to break their mental models and convince them that "you use apps to do things on your phone". Literally. That's the extent of most people's understanding. So, sure, they "want" apps in the same sen…

To most modern users, web browsers kinda suck if they don't know URLs. For example, if they want to find an item they saw on Amazon, searching it in browser history just sucks compared to the in-service search. A lot of users also use browsers like they use their Desktop folder, which is to say they have 100s of tabs open. The fact that apps enforce quitting and limited state is a plus to them, hence mobile Chrome ad…

> To most modern users, web browsers kinda suck if they don't know URLs. For example, if they want to find an item they saw on Amazon, searching it in browser history just sucks compared to the in-service search.

And, more and more, browsers are trying to hide the URL as much as possible. Which is REAPLY annoying.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#520
post #380

Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. I'm responsible for an internal tool at the company I work for, hosted as a website, that handles a bunch of miscellaneous tasks that other employees need. Think reimbursements, documentation and reporting, gathering and presenting business data. That sort of thing. When I took it over, it was desktop only ( a lot of formatted pa…

When I say I want an app that implies a few things: - this isn't a one-off use, I don't want an app to pay parking meter once and never use it again. - it's an app and not a WebView pretending to be native - it's native and not react-wanna-be-native - you know how to make an app I have to use this app to open a parcel locker and every time I launch it I have to wait for "downloading bundle". It's probably the easiest…

> this isn't a one-off use, I don't want an app to pay parking meter once and never use it again

Just today I ran into a parkingmeter that was covered up in favor of ONLY allowing to pay via app. Which I find horrendous. (austria, for context)

Post reply on HN