Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO the solution is asking why police need these powers in the first place.
The executive branch is tasked with law enforcement.
That doesn't mean they need the latest and greatest surveillance tech.
Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
221–230 of 235 posts
Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
>the better our police are the lighter the sentences can be. >If the chances of catching are near 100% you only need a smaller deterrent I would rather live in a world with marginally higher petty crime rates with zero surveillance, than a world that has no petty crime but where there are Flock cameras on every corner and drones patrolling overhead at all times. Peter Thiel and his ilk are creating Big Brother.
> marginally higher petty crime rates And what is a petty crime these days? Within the last year in Woolston Lyttelton and Brighton: I've been assualted unprovoked, I've had the outer unit of my split heatpump stolen (for Al, $$$ to fix), I've had outdoor plumbing damaged (for Cu, $$ to fix), I've had the rim stolen[1] off the back of my parked car, last week my friend had tools stolen that they can't afford to repla…
What are the police doing about it? I bet nothing, and they'd continue to do nothing if they had mass surveillance killer attack drones.
Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
In terms of photography there's no expectation of privacy in a public place. Maybe in some countries that's different but that's how it is here. If you take a picture in public you don't need the consent of everyone in the background. So the police aren't doing anything that joe bloggs couldn't do. Personally, I feel the police keep me safe. 99 times out of 100 when there's some kind of shitty headline about police t…
How are you defining public? When a drone flies over my backyard and records me naked in my hot tub, is that public now? Mind you that scenario is explicitly forbidden by law, the drones are only supposed to record at the scene but the police are illegally recording for the entire flight. Should the police be allowed to break the law when they feel like it? Or should they be held to the same (or higher) standard as t…
That's true about the hot tub. We already have helicopters but I can appreciate there's room for the drones to be more pervasive because of their lower cost.
Holding police to standards isn't easy. We ask people to go out and pull long shifts, to react in complex and life and death situations both for themselves and for the public in a split second, should we hold them to a high standard? yes, should we give them a break for split second mistakes bearing in mind what we're asking them to do - also yes.
Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#224Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#225Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Should they cook our food too? Unironically, also GP: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46559004 > > The bad food is a plus. The most orderly civilizations generally have the blandest food. Almost all societies with good food are chaotic and disorderly. So yes, the state should probably take over cooking to maintain order!
... Right, so explain Singapore.
I would like to see him try, yes.
Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are you defining public? When a drone flies over my backyard and records me naked in my hot tub, is that public now? Mind you that scenario is explicitly forbidden by law, the drones are only supposed to record at the scene but the police are illegally recording for the entire flight. Should the police be allowed to break the law when they feel like it? Or should they be held to the same (or higher) standard as t…
That's true about the hot tub. We already have helicopters but I can appreciate there's room for the drones to be more pervasive because of their lower cost. Holding police to standards isn't easy. We ask people to go out and pull long shifts, to react in complex and life and death situations both for themselves and for the public in a split second, should we hold them to a high standard? yes, should we give them a b…
> should we give them a break for split second mistakes bearing in mind what we're asking them to do - also yes
I disagree. Those we empower to take life must be held to the highest possible standard. After all, there is no returning from that path once it's taken.
Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
> First, the police have a weird habit of determining that black people drive the most suspicious cars. Does this racial profiling extend to their drone use as well? It's clear from the article that the police are using the drones in more situations than just the active investigations that they claim to use them in. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black ) What about we keep the drones to reduce crime an…
> If they ask YOU what crime YOU'RE committing you don't have to answer. Why would they have to answer you or even admit to following you? Why should the police be accountable, indeed? That's honestly my whole point, my whole issue with police having drones. They're not accountable, and when they get caught, they lie or ignore. They have power over you and I, they're in a special position, and for that reason we shou…
>Why should the police be accountable, indeed? That's honestly my whole point, my whole issue with police having drones. They're not accountable, and when they get caught, they lie or ignore. They have power over you and I, they're in a special position, and for that reason we should both be fighting them and holding them accountable wherever and whenever they step over the line (which, I'm sure you're aware, is constantly). Given the option and an inch, the police would establish a surveillance panopticon, all in the name of "safety."
The police are accountable, this is one of the big reasons they wear bodycams—so that there is a video record of if they were abusing their power. If they don't have the bodycam on, this would look very bad in front of a jury. If they're actually stalking you that's an abuse of power and you can sue the city/state.
The key difference is that they aren't accountable to you on the street because they need the special privilege to do their job.
Given the option (shown time and time again) police will sit on their ass and rack up overtime for their ridiculous pension. They aren't paid by crimes avoided so I don't think they would care to proactively fix it.
> The police do, literally, have special drone privileges. They get access to special, high-powered surveillance drones that the public does not get.
This is a real problem in America, where tools that could potentially be used for nefarious purposes become illegal for the general population "for their own good". If you're arguing we should have access to specialized surveillance drones and other police equipment on the market you have my complete support.
Also training for a drone, using a drone, recording video in public spaces, surveilling you in a public space are not privileges.
Surveilling you in your apartment needs a warrant, unless you have your window open, at which case it doesn't.
>Go fly a drone outside of a police officer's house and you'll end up dead or in jail.
Anyone can walk up to you and kill you, it doesn't mean there aren't legal consequences for it.
>people like some of the commenters in this thread will lay down their lives to defend them from public criticism.
This is because we've heard these arguments a million times and know it's a trojan for some harebrained ideology, which is unfortunate, because police oversight is an important topic—especially considering police unions wield a lot of political power.
Out of curiosity, where do you draw the line between what police can and can't do?
Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
> marginally higher petty crime rates And what is a petty crime these days? Within the last year in Woolston Lyttelton and Brighton: I've been assualted unprovoked, I've had the outer unit of my split heatpump stolen (for Al, $$$ to fix), I've had outdoor plumbing damaged (for Cu, $$ to fix), I've had the rim stolen[1] off the back of my parked car, last week my friend had tools stolen that they can't afford to repla…
What are the police doing about it? I bet nothing, and they'd continue to do nothing if they had mass surveillance killer attack drones.
The police are just part of a broken system: they seem to be as constrained as I am.
In my very limited experience, individual officers seem well intentioned. They are extremely well trained in the privacy rights of crooks: I'm guessing crooks use that to their advantage. Tht outcome feels like gaslighting if you're a victim trying to understand what is going on.
I assume it is possible to get involved in politics to make some systemic change. But that costs too much (selling my soul to become a politician, not just time and money).
I'm an engineer type that at least sees solutions to systemic flaws. I have worked on enough broken software in enough broken businesses to know my limitations to effect change.
Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait until you find out what the EU want/have asked the GAM trio of big tech corps to do to your phone and private messaging platforms. (Coincidentally they suddenly don't think so big an anti competition problem exists anymore).
Are you referring to Chat Control 2.0 which has repeatedly failed to pass the Parliament and is illegal to implement today? Or to the requirement for RCS for which certificates are only issued to trusted parties?
Incredibly in one comment you've managed to do all of
1. It's not happening
2. It's a good thing
3. Peddle false information
Impressive
Re: Leak of San Francisco Police Drone Footage Exposes Reality of Urban Surveillance
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Read more closely, especially the bit about how they used daylight savings as a control, as it suddenly changes the written time of the incident but not the actual darkness levels at that time.
Can you just quote the part of the article that says something to the effect of "when it's dark, black and white motorists commit similar levels of traffic offenses"?
You're not going to get a response because the study has been debunked and wasn't able to support your claim.
Even this study showed that Black motorists commit more traffic offenses than White motorists at night.