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Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

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Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#491

Post by bloppe »

tcfhgj wrote: post #463
bloppe wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, most of those "native" apps are actually just web apps packaged in Electron. The fact that you generally can't tell the difference is proof that there aren't any real reasons to prefer a native app. All the reasons have to do with either OS vendors trying to hobble PWAs, or web developers creating React monsters for no good reason. Web apps can actually be very performant.

Everyone can tell the difference immediately due to the lack of performance

You'd be surprised. Obsidian, slack, Spotify, figma etc don't usually get panned for lack of performance, and those aren't even very light weight. As wasm apps mature, it will only get harder to justify maintaining 5 different native apps instead of a single cross platform one

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#492

Post by DeepSeaTortoise »

wodenokoto wrote: post #476
0x457 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I say I want an app that implies a few things: - this isn't a one-off use, I don't want an app to pay parking meter once and never use it again. - it's an app and not a WebView pretending to be native - it's native and not react-wanna-be-native - you know how to make an app I have to use this app to open a parcel locker and every time I launch it I have to wait for "downloading bundle". It's probably the easiest…

But take parents example. What is it you want the app version to do that a decent website can’t do?

To me the major distinctions are near full functionality even if I'm offline and the app hasn't been used in a long time and offline-first design with all major assets being available for download ahead of time and/or transferable between devices without re-downloading

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#493

Post by bloppe »

gymhasanapp wrote: post #457
bloppe wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, most of those "native" apps are actually just web apps packaged in Electron. The fact that you generally can't tell the difference is proof that there aren't any real reasons to prefer a native app. All the reasons have to do with either OS vendors trying to hobble PWAs, or web developers creating React monsters for no good reason. Web apps can actually be very performant.

The real reason is really simple tho, and we could identify it ahead of time even before apps existed: The average users sucks at managing bookmarks. Telling a user that a feature is a webpage instead of an app means that they, in their glorious tech illiterate brain, think they have to memorize the url. They don't want to do that. They want to "have it" so they don't forget it. And having it is easier in the app men…

You could tell the average user that installing a native app would require memorizing a URL too. You would be lying, but you would be lying just as much as if you told them that they'd have to memorize a URL to use a PWA.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#494

Post by BlackFingolfin »

oblio wrote: post #474
gymhasanapp wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real reason is really simple tho, and we could identify it ahead of time even before apps existed: The average users sucks at managing bookmarks. Telling a user that a feature is a webpage instead of an app means that they, in their glorious tech illiterate brain, think they have to memorize the url. They don't want to do that. They want to "have it" so they don't forget it. And having it is easier in the app men…

This is trivially solvable with a good mobile OS level feature to create phone desktop icons from websites. Of course, Apple and Google will never do such a thing when their cut of app sales is ~$100bn globally.

Not sure what you are talking about (is this sarcasm?), but on iOS, Safari allows you to add any website as an item to your home screen. I am pretty sure Android has a similar feature.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#495

Post by baranul »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #312

Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. I'm responsible for an internal tool at the company I work for, hosted as a website, that handles a bunch of miscellaneous tasks that other employees need. Think reimbursements, documentation and reporting, gathering and presenting business data. That sort of thing. When I took it over, it was desktop only ( a lot of formatted pa…

> Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too.

This is true, as it depends on the nature of what is being presented and if offline usability is preferred or doable.

Everything as a website, can arguably be an equally bad fit for situations, as everything as an app. Flexibility and careful study is required.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#496

Post by myaccountonhn »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #159
buffalobuffalo wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the fundamental problem is ios. There are a bunch of features that ios locks down so that you are essentially forced to use apps. Want to send push notifications? You need an app. Want to be able to wake your app up in the background to do stuff intermittently? You need an app. Want to get your app on the home screen? Once again, you need an app. And before anyone says you can do this with PWAs, yes, that's true.…

"Want to get your app on the home screen?" Open Safari, navigate to the web app, tap the Share button, scroll down, and select 'Add to Home Screen'.

Unfortunately it really is hard for users to do this. It's so hidden.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#497

Post by Pavilion2095 »

adamwk wrote: post #402
jonahx wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We take tech literacy for granted, because it's like a dozen levels down fundamental to our entire field. But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. They "love apps" because apple and android have spent billions to break their mental models and convince them that "you use apps to do things on your phone". Literally. That's the extent of most people's understanding. So, sure, they "want" apps in the same sen…

This doesn’t really make sense. Apps were pretty popular immediately after decades of web usage. There are many reasons to prefer an app. Even on desktop; if I’m using a service enough throughout the day, I want a native app, not a website.

Back then developers didn't have tools to create websites that look good on both desktop and mobile devices. So websites back then were hardly usable. Apps solved this issue.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#498

Post by rahimnathwani »

myaccountonhn wrote: post #496
rahimnathwani wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Want to get your app on the home screen?" Open Safari, navigate to the web app, tap the Share button, scroll down, and select 'Add to Home Screen'.

Unfortunately it really is hard for users to do this. It's so hidden.

Yes, it's unfortunate.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#499

Post by oblio »

BlackFingolfin wrote: post #494
oblio wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is trivially solvable with a good mobile OS level feature to create phone desktop icons from websites. Of course, Apple and Google will never do such a thing when their cut of app sales is ~$100bn globally.

Not sure what you are talking about (is this sarcasm?), but on iOS, Safari allows you to add any website as an item to your home screen. I am pretty sure Android has a similar feature.

Is that front and center in the UI? How many users know about this feature? Do they promote it as much as they promote other features they want to promote?

Location and marketing matter. Otherwise we're in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy where the aliens put Earth's demolition notice on the bottom of a cupboard in a cellar on a planet light years away from Earth.

Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)

#500

Post by vaylian »

steve1977 wrote: post #448
vaylian wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web sites optimized for mobile weren't really a thing when the iPhone launched. That's why apps shined on smart phones. Web designers did eventually catch up with the hack but the trend towards apps was already too established at that point and people thought that you need an app to use a service.

Funnily enough, when the iPhone launched, it didn't have a native SDK. With iPhone OS 1, developers were supposed to create web apps. That only got changed with iPhone OS 2. https://web.archive.org/web/20070722172208/http://developer....

You are right. Steve Jobs also used the opportunity to destroy Flash. But my point still stands: Most web sites weren't developed with the mobile form-factor in mind until a while later.
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