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Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

fortune.com

111–120 of 132 posts

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact they gave a raw number instead of a percent of a quantity that is a change hinted that this was the case. $23B is more impressive than 4%.

Imagine a mortgage rate raising by 4%. Still unimpressive ?

It's funny that you don't realize you are doing the same thing; you are giving the absolute change like the article is doing; you are just doing the change in the rate instead of the underlying quantity. A 4% change in my rate if the original rate is 4% would be a 100% rate rate change, which of course is substantial.

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#112
post #47

This just isn't true. On balance, data centers are turning out to be more like the "anchor tenant" of the power grid, financing improvements for everyone. Overview article with links to actual studies: https://cityjournal.substack.com/p/data-centers-arent-raisin...

If the climate change denying and anti renewables Manhattan Institute is running propaganda for something that is strong evidence that the ordinary person is being conned.

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact they gave a raw number instead of a percent of a quantity that is a change hinted that this was the case. $23B is more impressive than 4%.

Imagine a mortgage rate raising by 4%. Still unimpressive ?

So the rate goes from say 4% to 4.16%? That's still unimpressive.

If you mean from 4% to 8%, then that's actually raising by 100%

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#114
Utility providers won't build fiber connectivity to homes and make massive profits ($50+/month), but they'll build unnecessary infrastructure for AI DCs and make people pay for it. As long as we do things to serve the super rich, everything is okay.

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#115
There are a few things going on at the same time that mean that electricity cost might actually go down.

The reasons for that are complex but have to do with how electricity pricing works. In many markets the price includes a lot of taxes, fixed cost for providers and infrastructure. Generation is only a minor cost. And on top of that the prices are set in a way that isn't really that flexible.

Infrastructure utilization is a very important here. Grid operators are very conservative with their infrastructure. They want to ensure there's enough to handle the worst case. That means there are a lot of assets that are nowhere near 100% utilized (e.g. cables and long distance transmission). It also means they are very inflexible serving new demand like data centers.

Adding batteries as energy buffers enables a lot better utilization of all these assets. That enables more revenue for the same infrastructure cost. Electricity prices can actually go down if you do that right. With renewables, there is very low marginal cost for generation. It's all infrastructure cost. Anything that improves infrastructure utilization enables more customers to have power that then share the infrastructure cost.

Data centers that are currently powered by things like on site gas turbines are not being very cost efficient. There's an obvious incentive for hyper scalers to invest in infrastructure that will lower their cost. They have access to many billions. They are spending on anything that will get them energy. They are desperate to spend. And they are completely bottle necked on grid operators that are being very conservative. Hence the expensive side hustle with gas turbines. There's a big opportunity here for massive investment in better grid infrastructure. That wouldn't necessarily be payed for by consumers. But they would still benefit from better infrastructure.

The key is unlocking these investments to happen.

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#116
post #72

It's important to ground the increase in raw numbers. The total revenue for electricity generation was $514b in 2024. So this was a 4-5% increase in costs. And if it is being invested in better generation and our aging infrastructure, that seems fine.

> So this was a 4-5% increase in costs …spread over an entire country. I can't find anything breakdown in the article. But from what I have heard, you either live somewhere with a high concentration of new data centers and see a massive price increase of as much as 50%, or more likely you don't see any increase at all.

Or you live in Maine with no datacenters and see massive price increases anyway, because God forbid we actually had a reasonable energy policy in the state.

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing all costs on to new entrants in a market is generally a bad thing for the market and causes it to not expand fast enough. Also they may just choose to not participate in the market at all. I.e they'll bring in a whole lot of natural gas generators, put them in the parking lot and call it good, which is not a good thing long term.

Why would any reasonable governing entity (I understand we live in a world where there are not many of these) allow you to run a bunch of natural gas generators in a parking lot?

Because xAI does? I wasn't making a hypothetical.

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#118
post #4

> But what if the power company needs to upgrade the substation to handle the increased needs of the data center? Or secure additional sources of electricity? In these cases, the investments are part of the electricity grid that everyone uses. These costs will likely be shared among all customers. Okay but this is a policy choice. It doesn’t have to be that way.

Where I live, if a developer wants to build a subdivision, they pay for the water and sewer lines. They pay to connect those lines to the city infrastructure. If the city infrastructure needs to be upgraded to handle the new volumes, they pay for at least a proportionate share of that too. The ongoing maintenance becomes part of the city's budget eventually, but not the costs of the build out. All those costs go into…

It is similar in Seattle. Large residential developments have a wastewater surcharge for several years to help upgrade infrastructure. Which normally just gets added as a line item in the utilities bill they pass off to residents.

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#119
Consumers pay for everything -- increased RAM, SSD, CPU, GPU prices, either directly (for DIY) or indirectly (apple/android phones). We pay dramatically increased prices for every device. We pay more because servers (non AI) cost a lot more now, which means cloud (or your own DC) bills increases for all companies and they are all going to raise prices.

Electricity will cost more because AI DCs need to be cheap, all upgrades cost will be borne by consumers.

Water will be less available and/or cost more because all forms of energy (except solar, wind, hydro) need a TON of water[1]. Which was ~48 trillion gallons in 2021.

As a consequence, nearly everything will cost a lot more. And this is the price we pay for AI. AI has hijacked the supply chains built for existing uses, taken over all the low cost ones. Forcing the rest of humanity to bear the costs of building everything new at a high cost, both high CapEx/OpEx.

These externalities must be accounted for when thinking about how 'cheap' AI is.

--- [1]From: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=56820

U.S. electric power sector water withdrawals for power plant cooling: 47.7 trillion gallons of water.

The electric power sector uses a large amount of water, mostly for cooling. Thermoelectric power plants (including natural gas, nuclear, and coal plants) boil water to create steam, which spins a turbine to generate electricity. The steam leaving the turbine must be cooled back into water to be used to generate more electricity. Plants withdraw water from nearby rivers, lakes, or oceans and pass that water through the steam leaving the turbine. That process cools and condenses the steam back into water. In 2021, 73% of the utility-scale electricity generated in the United States came from thermoelectric power plants.

Re: Data centers have hiked electricity prices on the public by $23B

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely this. Incredibly annoying headline

I find it hilarious nobody ever mentions texas w/r/t this issue. They already required new Large Load Interconect Studies- and paying the cost of new grid infra. And, the hufe influx of study reqiests lead to new laws introducing batching. I will note- the actual generation is left to market economics. I have much more faith in that working out equitably than regulating the grid. Even so, they've had significant cons…

Except it's fundamentally not equitable: regular people can't easily relocate, and use electricity to heat and cool their homes, cook food, and have lighting.

A data center can easily outbid them on the electricity market and drive prices through the roof for a few years, but also is free to simply turn off if it doesn't like the rates.

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