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Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

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Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#231

Post by qu4z-2 »

burtness wrote: post #224
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely not the DE/WM devs driving this, it's the wayland folks saying that xorg would no longer be maintained. They literally just dumped an Ikea box of protocols on the table without even bothering to provide a decent sample implementation and said 'good luck!'

the Wayland folks are the X11 folks though

Yeah but the display server people are different from the WM/DE people. And the former kinda just said "coding is hard" and made it all the responsibility of the WM/DE people.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#232

Post by esseph »

inigyou wrote: post #158
alightsoul wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's open source you can make money by selling managed services to companies. They don't want to deal with it really.

How is Red Hat's revenue compared to Microsoft's?

Are you sure you want to put Microsoft on any kind of pedestal?

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#234

Post by qu4z-2 »

bigyabai wrote: post #8
shmerl wrote: post #5

> A lot of people still use X11 over Wayland because Wayland is said to have much worse input lag Wayland is fine. People should use AMD and KDE Plasma. I'd avoid Nvidia to begin with.

AMD's Mesa drivers are better, but if you already have an Nvidia card then you can still use it just fine with Wayland. The biggest hit is Vulkan performance (~20% less than Windows iirc) but for desktop and casual gaming use, Nvidia's proprietary drivers are perfectly fine.

I specifically bought an AMD card for my living room Steam box, and I've had way more driver issues with that computer than when it had an nVidia card (although there's also other software changes). Mostly: the audio hitches frequently when outputting via HDMI, and a many-year-old AMD driver bug where it will always prefer YUV to RGB when supported by the display with no kernel parameters or anything to override (this one is apparently finally getting fixed in 7.2 hopefully). That said, I've had some issues with the nVidia drivers too, and I much prefer open source ones, ceteris paribus.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#235

Post by tim-projects »

prhn wrote: post #11

Awesome article. I switched my daily driver / gaming rig to Fedora a few months back. Everything seems snappier compared to Windows, but not sure if it’s in my head, and I’ve been very curious about gaming input latency. This helps answer some questions. I recently switched to hyprland and I’m very interested how that fits in these results. hyprland uses Wayland so I hope the author might revisit now that hyprland is…

I use gamescope on a separate TTY that directly launches either steam or heroic launcher. I find this works exceptionally well. No window manager needed as you are playing a game full screen anyway. It fixed some other things like HDR too but at a loss of the volume and brightness keys no longer working.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#236

Post by hulitu »

cgyvbunji wrote: post #3

He seems confused at the end why people think wayland is so slow, but don't you think it's because of his xwayland result? People were probably running x11 games on wayland and noticed that significant lag. Just a wild guess. Very nice article, wish people did actual measurements like this more often, of all sorts of things.

> but don't you think it's because of his xwayland result

No. Wayland is slow on its own. You can test it without Xwayland.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#237

Post by uecker »

toast0 wrote: post #230
EffrafaxOfWug wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a wayland equivalent. It's called waypipe. In my experiences it often works better than x11 forwarding.

Unfortunately, there's no wayland server for windows, so you can't use waypipe there without pulling in a linux vm or similar.

Also waypipe is inferior by design as it is a proxy added after the fact.

But it does not matter that they now have some kind of a solution for a use case for which they denied that it even exists for a long time. I will avoid Wayland because I do not like the direction and the interests that drive it.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#238

Post by worthless-trash »

pelorat wrote: post #114
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>give Bazzite a whirl I never really understood Bazzite's immutable fs thing. Can one install standard dev stuff (i.e. compilers, ides, etc) easily under bazzite? This use case is the main reason why I lean towards maybe using cachyos

Yes of course, but you need to do it via the package manager. You can't "sudo make install". If you build your own software and want to install it system wide, you need to flatpack/brew it or run it in a docker container. (obviously you can modify the filesystem if you really really really want to). Bazzite is gaming oriented version of Fedora CoreOs. There are many different versions. I am running bluefin. I've trie…

> However, it's desktop oriented. Don't run CoreOs on a server.

Why not, this kind of management seems ideal, A/B safe testing for boot.

Lots of containers to go around these days, people are familiar with them and how they work, seems like an obvious sane choice.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#239

Post by 3abiton »

This was a very enjoyable read, and loved the distribution inclusion, rather than point statistics. I hope there are more tests on different factors like GPUs (nvidia vs amd vs intel), screens, mice, and ultimately windows to see if there is really a difference. I don't play competitve gaming, but careful data driven approach would put a lot of the debated questions to rest.

Re: Measuring Input Latency on Linux: X11 vs. Wayland, VRR, and DXVK

#240

Post by eqvinox »

> So, does X11 have lower latency than Wayland?

> Yes, but nowhere near enough to explain why Wayland is generally perceived as much worse than X11.

Personally speaking: Wayland has massive stutters when the system is under load, most notably on the mouse pointer. X11 doesn't.

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