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Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
461–470 of 571 posts
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
This doesn’t really make sense. Apps were pretty popular immediately after decades of web usage. There are many reasons to prefer an app. Even on desktop; if I’m using a service enough throughout the day, I want a native app, not a website.
There are many reasons to prefer an app, most of which are ways OS makers have crippled web apps for reasons that TOTALLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO with the fact that they get a 30% cut if the user chooses the native app.
One important which is not included: web apps are resource hogs
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
This doesn’t really make sense. Apps were pretty popular immediately after decades of web usage. There are many reasons to prefer an app. Even on desktop; if I’m using a service enough throughout the day, I want a native app, not a website.
At this point, most of those "native" apps are actually just web apps packaged in Electron. The fact that you generally can't tell the difference is proof that there aren't any real reasons to prefer a native app. All the reasons have to do with either OS vendors trying to hobble PWAs, or web developers creating React monsters for no good reason. Web apps can actually be very performant.
Everyone can tell the difference immediately due to the lack of performance
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#464a lot of the modern web could just be plain text files. or simple static HTML or Markdown for links and embedded images.
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
End users don't care about if it's an app or not. What they care about: - Does it do what I need it to - Can I access it easily - Is it easy to navigate - Does it work or is it buggy - Is it slow - Does it abuse notifications - Is it prompting me to log in all the time - Are there too many ads - Can I use it on any device I have - Does it complain about updating constantly I don't think any of those actually has to d…
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading these comments. Apps are clearly better for end users. HTML and css is SUPER slow. It doesn't feel native, it doesn't feel good to use. You also get so many weird glitches with state refreshing, sessions being cleared, log in not persisting. Has anyone here actually used a PWA? You can feel that it's slow and clunky. Apps feel SO much better with the native UI, pre-downloade…
> You also get so many weird glitches with state refreshing, sessions being cleared, log in not persisting.
And these don't happen in native apps? Because they somehow have less bugs?
> Apps feel SO much better with the native UI, pre-downloaded
React Native apps are pre-downloaded and have a native UI. Lots of them feel really bad. Not all, though.
You can make fast websites/PWAs just like you can make slow apps.
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#466I wish there hadn't been that weird conspiracy against bookmarks that google and mozilla collaborated on. I keep trying to get back into the habit of using bookmarks, but I keep forgetting they exist again whenever the bookmark bar turns itself off for no reason.
While I'm at it, also screw mozilla for messing up the browser history so badly.
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How far down does this go? Should I be able to contact the individual person who picked the specific strawberries in my carton of strawberries? Down to the manufacturer of the whole product you're buying. In the case of your strawberries that would probably be the farmer. > In the Walmart t-shirt example, should I have the contact info for not only the factory but the other suppliers who made the dyes, threads, cot…
I see your point and I think it's a reasonable one. I know this may seem like moving goalposts, but I forgot to mention another point here, which is that I'm perfectly happy with allowing my customers to reach me by mail and they actually can reach me that way. What I'm much less okay with is someone knowing where my family and I sleep. I have a mail forwarding service so that I don't have to give out my home address…
> I know this may seem like moving goalposts, but I forgot to mention another point here, which is that I'm perfectly happy with allowing my customers to reach me by mail and they actually can reach me that way. What I'm much less okay with is someone knowing where my family and I sleep.
> I have a mail forwarding service so that I don't have to give out my home address. If you send me mail to that address, I will see it!
In this case you have an address where people can reach you. I have no problem doing things this way. And even if you were a knobhead who only did that to fulfil the regulations and ignored any actual mail going to that address, being able to send mail there, have it go in a black hole, and then be able to go to whatever consumer protection agency and tell them 'I mailed them a letter and they never responded' has value in and of itself for the consumer.
> It's another cost and hassle to have to set this up just to avoid the rare but possible doxxing situation that comes along with putting things out in public. The other part of this is that big corporations are obviously much better equipped to handle this scenario and they don't represent a single person's reputation or literal home in the same way.
> I realize that addresses aren't really private but you never know what can happen. Maybe my app blows up and goes viral, there's some kind of controversy that gets out of my control via the media or something like that, and now my App Store listing for my viral app has my home address and a bunch of people on the Internet start sending me poop in the mail.
Fair point that it's a hassle for you as an individual. I get that you don't want to be doxxed. In an ideal world the people doxxing you would be prosecuted for doing that, but that's probably a big ask if you're in the US, at least from what I can tell. In Europe from what I can tell, while it's not a non-issue, it usually doesn't get worse than verbal abuse and people being angry on the internet, and while nobody deserves death threats, at least it's just words and not, ya know, letter bombs or swatting. Even relatively 'minor' offences caused by going viral, like stalking, are prosecuted and dealt with from what I can tell (exceptions obviously exist in both directions).
> Now, all of this may be more of the fault of EU regulations and that's also perfectly fine but it makes me wonder a little bit if there can't be some kind of solution that is compliant but a little friendlier to small/solo businesses? If it's not possible I can definitely accept that.
I'm not sure what can be done beyond loosing the restrictions on the little guy, but I'm not sure if there's much political will for that (and don't get me wrong when I say this, but also, good reason). If there's a reasonable solution that upholds consumer protections and rights, I'm open for it.
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#468Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. I'm responsible for an internal tool at the company I work for, hosted as a website, that handles a bunch of miscellaneous tasks that other employees need. Think reimbursements, documentation and reporting, gathering and presenting business data. That sort of thing. When I took it over, it was desktop only ( a lot of formatted pa…
As not a web dev, out of curiosity: What would be the drawback or problem with showing a header or pop-up on mobile browsers, offering to install them as (web)app? Then using the PWA functionality of the browser to do it. I'm not a heavy user of those but the result of PWAs has always been an icon that's handled by the OS like if it was any other native app, and when opened it just behaves like the web browser in kio…
> What would be the drawback or problem with showing a header or pop-up on mobile browsers, offering to install them as (web)app?
In this world, every single site now pops up asking to be installed. No thanks.
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#469Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. I'm responsible for an internal tool at the company I work for, hosted as a website, that handles a bunch of miscellaneous tasks that other employees need. Think reimbursements, documentation and reporting, gathering and presenting business data. That sort of thing. When I took it over, it was desktop only ( a lot of formatted pa…
I encountered something similar recently. I put a lot of effort into making a PWA mobile-optimized version of my product which is effective an app in a browser. And I was flooded by user feedback saying they simply would not use the product until there was an app available. There is little option but to create an app in this environment, or face disinterest from potential customers. And the internet is shockingly mobile-focused nowadays, 80-90% of traffic is coming from mobile devices. So not having an app is death for your business.
Apple will also not approve a straight web browser in an app wrapper, there's a specific rule that disallows this, so you have to make some good faith effort to implement it natively or not be allowed on the App Store.
Re: Your 'app' could have been a webpage (so I fixed it for you)
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In case of an app, what is the "product" you are buying? The app. > Because according to Apple, they add a lot of "value" by ensuring the software is safe, performant, etc etc. Am I not buying "a safe, checked app"? Or am I buying an app and then separately pay Apple for an added service of "checking the app for safety" etc etc. I'd very much presume the first. If you want to, you can imagine the 30% cut being that…
I think a good analogy for this difference would be this: Walmart sells both fresh/frozen/packaged food (lots of food safety regulations) and t-shirts (few regulations by comparison). They also sell things like cell phone plans and subscription services that have entirely different sets of regulations. Exactly as you described, if I make a specific type of app, maybe the business address and responsible party should…
If your app is paid, there should be a business behind it, which has a business address and other associated contacts.
Replace 'app' with literally any other product or service in that sentence, and it still seems reasonable to me. You should be able to reach the producer of your frozen nuggies from Walmart, as well as the manufacturer of their t-shirts.
If your product or service is free, then a lot of that flies out the window (assuming it isn't actively hurting someone). Netflix's free app doesn't really do anything if you don't pay, but since it's free, you can't bring a claim to Netflix to complain about it, since you haven't paid for anything. The moment you pay for service though, then your right to complain if there's a fault in the service kicks in, which may or may not involve the free app (which Netflix is pointing you to and telling you to use to use their service). Once a consumer has paid for something, they should be able to follow the trail back to whomever made the product they're using.